"1 MOA, all day long"

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It depends on who is talking. I shoot targets with 2 guys who have been handloading/target shooting for many years. If they talk MOA I listen because I know the quality of their rifles and their ability. Any one else....I listen; take it with a grain of salt until they prove that they/their rifle can.
If I put my rifle in a led sled or a similar device, my rifles can shoot MOA. With me behind it.....thats another story :cool:
 
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Yes, I believe there are lots of factory guns that can shoot MOA, but I also believe that are very few people who can shoot MOA consistently.
 
old ropers link to Lilja's barrels used for records is something to think about. The 600-yard aggregate for group shooting are the average of several groups shot. The largest groups are typically half again as big as the average. Agg's in the 1.7 to almost 2 inch range happen when the largest single goups about 3 inches.

While to some this may seem exciting, but such groups from free recoiling rifles virtually untouched by humans today are no smaller than test groups with rifles normally fired from the shoulder shot around 1970. Which to me means, all the modern stuff ain't any more accurate than what some Winchester 70 based rifles did 40 some odd years ago. With full length sized cases to boot.
 
Bart B,

I like group shooting and that is were my interest are and if I decided to get into F-Class as I mention before it be the open @ 1000yds.

These F-Class shooter has about same style shooting as BR shooter

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek100.html

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek088.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GcDY0S096c

http://blog.sinclairintl.com/2010/08/11/back-to-the-“original”-the-284-winchester-part-2/

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...ts-450-24x-f-open-record-with-home-built-gun/

I'd sure be interested in your comments on the F-Class open as to how they compare to those test run in the 70's shoulder groups?
 
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old roper, those F class numbers are very good indeed.

But I wasn't referring to such disciplines nor benchrest either when I commented: While to some this may seem exciting, but such groups from free recoiling rifles virtually untouched by humans today are no smaller than test groups with rifles normally fired from the shoulder shot around 1970. Those rifles back then were fired from machine rests, untouched by humans except for a finger on their triggers. Some 10-shot ones were well under an inch at 600.
 
Bart B, I really have no interested in what happen in the 70 with test on any rifle that wasn't with BR rifle. If I wanted to look at the Highpower back then I would of done it.

If you want to talk accuracy we can do it based on what's being shot today I don't like living in the past. If you want to take your shoulder mounted rifle and give me some lesson they have a 1000yd BR match April 21 @ Byers or the have 80 shot Highpower first part of April on the 1000yd range I'm sure those guys be glad to see you.
 
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old roper, all I did was mention that rifle accuracy has not improved over the last several decades. Smaller groups and higher scores happen; that's a statistical fact. So does larger groups and lower scores. If my comments upset you, so be it. They were not intended to.

Too bad those links' pages didn't show what the largest groups and lowest scores produced by those record-holding rifle-ammo-shooter combinations are as that would give a more realistic view of their performance spectrum. Records only reflect the smallest percentage of overall performance of the best sets of people and equipment.

I and a friend laid out that high power range north of Byers in the early 1980's using an electronic distance meter one sub-zero January day. Also designed the pits, firing lines and safety berms.
 
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