"00" Federal - Standard or Reduced Recoil?

C

CMOS

New member
Hey All,

I'm about to buy a case of "serious" 00 for a decent price and have the choice of getting the Federal Standard 00 (lead pellets) or the 00 Tactical Reduced Recoil (steel with copper coating).

Do any of you (speak up Dave McC) have opinions on a chioce between the 2 as far as effectiveness in a "serious" situation?

There seems to be pro's and con's for both. Though it would be good to run this through the TFL jury before I buy...

CMOS
 
IIRC, the Tactical loads are loaded 100-150 fps slower and lack one pellet (8 vs 9). If I remember my Federal load data correctly (I don't reload shotgun shells, only metallic cartridges) that means the tactical load has eight .32 caliber pellets going at about 1200 fps. I doubt the decrease in performance over nine .32 caliber pellets going 1350 fps is significant.

I never knew the Tactical loads were copper plated. I've got to cut one open and use it as a decoration here on my desk at work. :)

HTH,

Justin
 
Consider Estates 00 Buck

For serious ammo, I would suggest you consider Estates ammo. The last I checked Natchez has it on sale in both SWAT tactical loads and military loads.

Both seem to work extremely well. For the money, I go with the tactical load. It is sold in boxes of 10 and cheaper than the military load and Federal Ammo.

One man's opinion . . .

[Edited by AAshooter on 05-09-2001 at 10:06 AM]
 
CMOS, that standard Fed load was one of the duty loads I used in the bad old days. It works, but unless your shotgun "Likes" it, there's better choices, IMO. Sorry, no experience with the Fed-Lite load.

I'll second the motion on the Estate "SWAT" ammo. Best patterning 00 I've seen, and I've seen plenty. And,it's also on sale at Natchez for $2.19 a TEN pack.

BTW, the T&E I did on it was sent to Md DOC for consideration.

IMO, it's the Best Buy out there in Buckshotland.
 
Okay, you talked me into looking at Estate. Can someone give me some contact info for Natchez?

CMOS
 
They all work!

Any of these loads will put out 8 or 9 33 cal pellets
moving at over 1100 fps, which is pretty devestating.
Any direct hit with that kind of load should be
very quickly incapacitating.
I must say that the Estate SWAT load is very comfortable
to shoot, and it does give amazing patterns through
my Vang 870. However, pretty much everything gives
very tight patterns through that barrel at any
realistic ranges, so I could safely use basically
any quality buckshot, and if I have a choice of more
pellets and higher velocity, I would take it. For
practice, I want something that's comfortable to shoot,
but for my real HD load, right now I have Fiocchi
high-velocity 9-pellet. I'm probably going to buy a
magnum high-velocity load of some kind and try it out.
 
Tha tactical is the SWAT load, TCW. I've no experience with the military load.

Zoosh.....

Each shotgun is a law unto itself when it comes to best buckshot loads, but a few LOOSE rules apply.

First, tighter is better. Shotguns can dump a humungous amount of energy into a target. That, rather than spread, is what we want.

Lower velocity usually patterns tighter.

Buffered loads pattern tighter.

Truly round pellets pattern tighter.

Open chokes oft pattern tighter than full.

Long forcing cones and overboring often patterns tighter.

And, magnum loads in most cases are a waste of money.

Shoot a couple felons, one with a lower recoil load like the Estate SWAT load we talk about here,the other with a 3", 15 pellet barnburner.Unless one felon is a lot taller than the other, both will hit hit the ground at the same time. Enough is enough, more than enough may be too much.

At typical HD ranges, the shells could be loaded with breath mints or 000 depleted Uranium pellets rubbed with garlic, the results will be the same.

For non typical HD ranges, the larger pellets will work better, which is why my HD 870 has some 00 in the tube,right after a couple of trap loads.

The only way to tell if a load and shotgun are compatible is to test them. I can double pattern size at distances over 15 yards by switching loads.

Testing of chokes, loads and shotguns can be exhausting. It takes not much time, cash and effort,though, to find a combination that works, and not much more to work well, if not optimum.
 
As far as Estates 00 buck, I have shot both the Military ($1.79/5 at Natchez) and the Tactical loads ($2.19/10 at Natchez). Both perform extremely well. I don't know the specific differences between them. I am sure the Military is slightly better and has guaranteed performance.

After shooting quite a bit of it, the tactical loads have similar performance as far as patterning and are quite a bit cheaper. Through a Vang Comp barrel, this stuff is amazing!

I just received 1000 rounds from Natchez and shipping was about $ 60. It seems high but total price is reasonable (~$ 280). Comparing this to Ammoman for Federal Tactical with shipping included, it is about half price.

Although I use Ammoman as an example, I have the utmost respect for them as a supplier. Their prices are extremely reasonable and include shipping. Their customer service is fantastic and I buy a lot of ammo through them. However, in the case of 00 buck, it is tough to beat this deal at Natchez.

Finally, if you are buying "serious" ammo for self defense, make sure it runs in your gun. I suggest you shoot 500-1000 rounds in your gun before you bet your life on it, especially if it is an autoloader. Make sure you pattern your shotgun to see what the load does at various distances and practice! If you don't do this, your "serious" ammo is money wasted.

[Edited by AAshooter on 05-09-2001 at 10:20 AM]
 
Hey, CMOS, Estate is right up the road from you, in Willis. I wonder if they will sell to you outright and save you the shipping $ ?

Bud
 
Bud1, I wish that were the case but I seriously doubt they would do that. I sure they have to sell to "authorized" dealers and those who are "licensed" to sell ammo. You know, all that crap.

I'm going to give the Estate 00 a try and see how the Benelli and the 870MM like them.

If they like it, I'll feed them some more...

CMOS
 
AAShooter -

Can you elaborate on the why of

I suggest you shoot 500-1000 rounds in your gun before you bet your life on it, especially if it is an autoloader.
 
CMOS:

Sorry if I'm being picky, but Federal Tactical buckshot is not copper plated steel. I'm not sure where you came up with that. Got a magnet?

The head of the shell is brass plated steel, but that is the only steel in the shells.

Yeah, I know, picky, picky, picky, but an error like this causes all kinds of problems down the road.
 
AA, 500-1000 rounds of serious stuff may be overkill. I espouse extensive testing of potential defense ammo in "Serious" firearms, but IMO, fire testing of 100 rounds of Serious ammo is usually sufficient, followed by plenty of practice ammo.

In either method, tho, what is important is handling and firing your shotgun until it feels like a body part.
 
Winston, the 500-100 rounds is just a personal level of comfort. If I can run that through my gun and have no malfunctions I know that I can count on it to run when I need it to. Dave McC sounds like he is comfortable with 100 rounds plus practice ammo. The key is to do what you need to do to make sure your gun will operate well with the ammo.

In this case, if you are going to be shooting 00 buck anyway, Estates is pretty inexpensive. So, why not shoot it. The worst that happens is you find a problem or become more comforatable. Better yet, go take a class or two and you will go through that much ammo pretty quickly.

I know too many people that buy their box of defensive ammo and never shoot it to see if it works in their gun. This is a mistake. So, no rocket science here . . . just a personal opinion.

By the way, I heard that Estates was purchased by another company. Is this true? If so, will this affect their product offering?
 
DML, thanks for setting me srtaight on the Reduced Recoil Federal. Believe it or not the guy at the police supply store told me the bit about the "copper coated steel" pellets. So much for the experts. Actually I think the experts are here at TFL. This notion has been proven to me time and time again.

Well, I now have a quest to find the truth: What is the difference between the Federal Reduced Recoil 00 and the standard (or classic) 00?

I'll post my findings if nobody beats me to it.

CMOS
 
CMOS:

Yep, there are a lot of X-Spurts out there and I'm sure that they are more then willing to tell you about it. You are also correct about there being a lot of knowledge on this forum.

I couldn't tell you a thing about Browning or Winchester doubles, but I have been making a good part of my living for the last 6 years working on Remington and Mossberg pumps and Remington 1100 and 11-87 semi-autos. I deal with people who fire more shotgun shells in a month then most people will shoot in their lifetime. I have learned a few things.

Speaking of steel. I have read a few comments about the receiver of the Mossberg 590-A1 being made of steel. Sorry, it's made of aluminum alloy. If you check it with a magnet it may fool you. There are enough steel parts to make it feel magnetic in spots.
 
AA, I read that Estate was purchased by Blount, Inc, parent company of Federal, among others. Estate has a large following among clay gamers with loads other than buck.

CMOS, some range testing for comparisons would be interesting. Please post any results and findings.

As for "Gun Experts", I recall one fellow who worked with me at the Md House of Correction, who talked a good game.One night,ca 1980, he violated several post orders, a couple safety rules, and common sense and shot off part of his foot with a shotgun, probably an 870. Nicknamed "9 Toes", he still works for DOC, TTBOMK.

Another rocket scientist, nicknamed "Buckshot" for the rest of his extremely brief career there, had a USMC tatoo, a tough as nails walk, and an inability to plausibly explain why there was one 00 round short in his ammo count, and a 12 ga sized hole in the ceiling of the Southwest Tower, directly over the toilet.

And yet another guy who obviously read all the magazines was provisionally qualified OTJ with weapons because the Academy had a severe backup at the time and spent some time working the gun towers before getting to the Academy. When he did get to the range at the Academy, he loaded up a Model 64 with 6 110 gr +Ps and proceeded to place a nice tight group into the head of his silohuette target. Unfortunately, the command to fire had not been given, and people were still downrange putting up their targets! He arrived back at the Academy in damaged condition. A couple of the people who he had endangered opened up a can of @$$whip on him.
 
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