Youth, the Second Amendment, and a Handgun.

L

Lazarus

Inactive
Hope there isn't already a topic about this...
Let me start you all off with some info. I am a young woman. I am fairly small, 5 foot four and 135 lbs. I am leaving for college in california (ugh, I know, but there's good engineering colleges at least), and I will be 16 years old when I go. I will probably live with a relative the first year, but after that (17, 18, 19 years old), I will be a young, small woman all on her own.
Wait, add something else to that list.
Unarmed.
In California and many other states, I know that it's incredibly hard for a young person to get her hands on a gun. Even for self-protection. Even to keep from being raped. What do I do? Break the law? Go unprotected? I own a rifle and a Lorcin .380 in my father's name, but I can't take it over the border- hell, I can't even really touch it in California if I'm 16. What to do?
 
Personally, I refuse to obey laws that can get me killed. Civil disobedience isn't for the faint of heart or weak of will, but ask yourself this:

Would you rather explain to a jury why you killed a rapist... or would you rather be raped and/or dead?

You make the call.

And please, dump that cheesy Lorcin.

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"The right of no person to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property,
or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall be called in question.."
Article 11, Section 13, CO state constitution.
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Coinneach, CO CAN Operator
 
OFF TOPIC! And no excuses!

Folks, this young woman will be sixteen when she enters engineering college.

Look at her post! Read it! Coherent, well-stated thoughts. Reasonable, important questions....

Have faith! The future is not entirely left to kids who burn veterans' monuments.

This self-reliant young lady, already an obvious believer in the Second Amendment, is our REAL hope for the future.

How about some of you martial arts folks also give her some helpful advice?

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Lazarus,

You're in a heck of a fix! There's a conflict between moral self-reliance and the law! Bummer!

I'm hoping our panel of experts can give you some practical advice on how to be trained with the empty hand, with weapons of opportunity, with legal weapons and even with firearms.

Perhaps, if you mention where you will be going in California, there will be someone on TFL who can give better information on training possiblities.

Maybe even someone who could help you with training! (Hint! Hint!)

Then YOU can make a better decision of what meets your requirements.

Good luck to you.
 
Realistically, a knife and pepper spray are your only choices.

I believe it's a felony to be caught with a firearm on campus, here in California.

If you don't mind me asking, what area are you going to school? Keep in mind others may read this and if you put the two together, it may not be to your benefit to answer.
 
You are obviously a gifted student to finish high school so early. Though intelligent and mature, however, I suggest (this will get me flamed) that you are not old enough to make a lifelong-affecting decision such as risking getting caught breaking an (admittedly unconstitutional) felony law. So I would recommend, if legal, obtaining OC spray canisters and PRACTICING with them (aim for the assailant's nose). Go through an entire cannister practicing on a dummy or willing "participant" :) (If you do find a helper, be sure to have for him and you - because you'll probably get a backlash if role-playing a real time scenario - lots of plain fresh water handy to clease the skin and eyes - don't use any kind of cream or lotion - just water, fresh air, and time for recovery). OC spray is very powerful if delivered successfully to the face - 5% is plenty good - I recommend the fogging spray, but foam is OK too. Also practice retention of it. Then carry it EVERYWHERE you go. Mind the expiration dates and squirt it once a month to make sure it's working. This is a relatively cheap and effective way to disable your attacker to give you enough time to run. But you have to know how to whip it out and release it quickly. In my state, one must be 23 to apply for a CCW (ridiculous, yes). In many, it is 21. In Kali, I don't know. Good luck and stay in touch with us!

[This message has been edited by Futo Inu (edited November 10, 1999).]
 
Lazarus, I discourage anything illegal. First, the school which requires you to rely on their ability to provide for your safety owes you something. As a "special" student (I know you hate that) offer them in writing your concerns. Nope, they won't allow you to carry, but if you ever request ahead, I bet you get an escort on demand. Don't take it personally. Also, think of overall strategies when you arrive. Travel in groups. Learn your suroundings. Evaluate in daylight places you don't want to be caught in after dark. Control your phone and IPS service. Trust the people who have the most to lose from your displeasure on campus. Off campus, always be with a responsible adult. This gets hazy sometimes, but you exhibit so many admirable qualities, I don't doubt your resourcefulness. Hope you stick around.
 
On-campus I do not intend to carry, but off campus is what concerns me. Luckily it is a small town- I plan on attending one of the Claremont Cluster schools.

This angers the Libertarian in me, although I greatly respect your advice, Futo Inu.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>you are not old enough to make a lifelong-affecting decision such as risking getting caught breaking an (admittedly unconstitutional) felony law. [/quote]
But old enough to be raped, murdered?
I am not considering carrying it on campus (unless staying in a dorm is necessary beyond first-year, but I don't believe so.)

Also, for those who are wondering, I'm well trained. The Lorcin is a bit tail-heavy, and it does suck for target practice, but I know live with my mother and this is all that's in the house besides my 22 singleshot long rifle (which I don't even trust to shoot now as I got it for Christmas when I was 8 and I think the firing pin has undergone some damage since then). I am planning on picking up a Ruger SP101 (had my eye on one for quite a while).

Does anyone have any legal info on just plain owning a gun in California?

Thanks very much, my friends. I think I'll hang around here longer. Lots of libertarians and conservative republicans here, eh? Just my type! :)


[This message has been edited by Lazarus (edited November 10, 1999).]
 
Lazarus, Here is a site, Gunowners of California, that should be able to help. They seem responsive to questions. Best to you.
Jerry
 
Lazarus...
I was in your position...but I'm twice your age, 5'7 and the laws are different now :)

Dad gave me his 1911 when I left for college at 17 (illegal for me at the time; saved my bacon a few years later). All I can say is be smart, use your obviously analytical mind and also get into knives.
The problem in Cali is that on campus, all weapons are illegal, so never, ever let anyone know you even have a knife. Claremont isn't that safe.

As for owning a gun in Cali....you have at least 5 yrs, maybe more by the time you attain it to own a handgun. Rifles laws are being looked at as well. This is not a self-defense friendly state; and your rapist or killer will serve at best a 1/2 sentence.

Be discreet, be smart, pre-prepare. You know what to do.

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
Lazarus, I think I understand how you feel, but I stand by my assertion because people change so drastically between your age and 30 years old, that I don't think such a decision with such lasting consequences should be made at your age; analogous to getting a tattoo. This is just MO, based on a complicated calculus involving a premise that OC spray or something similar is HIGHLY likely to be as effective as a gun against rape, etc., in the vast majority of situations, if you're properly trained, as weighed against the relative consequences of getting caught carrying a gun illegally in such a non-tolerant state as Calif. versus getting "caught" with a non-lethal cannister of OC or something like that. It's not about whether you deserve to be a crime victim or not, it's just a complicated calculus that must be weighed by each person, and I wouldn't fault you for one second if your weighing of the calculus produces a different result than mine. I'm just trying to give you more info upon which to make your decision, that you may not know, to wit: Your are likely to change your fundamental beliefs once, twice, or more, drastically even, in the next 10-15 years. Maybe not, but it happens a lot. Then you might be really bitter at that point for having this theoretical felony record, because you want to [insert your ambition being disabled by the conviction here]. In any event, I appreciate the thoughtfulness you've demonstrated. I was a complete dunce compared to you at 16. See ya. -Dan
 
Well, I don't know if I agree with you (my poor ego has been sorely bruised) but I definitely appreciate your comments and I am taking them into account. Thank you.
 
At your age I wasn't mature enough to own weapons of any kind. However, if you think that you can deal with the responsibility, I would advise one or both:

- have an improvised weapon handy (club variety as they are easy to make look innocuous and keep so that they are fast to deploy)

- get a mousegun (.32/380/.38, whichever you can hide effectively), train well and carry it in deep concealment as second line of defense.

Don't talk about it. Don't show it to ANYONE, not even your TFL pals. Don't use it unless it is do or die situation.

I have a friend who had carried illegally for years as he beleived it was his preference to protect himself and his duty to protect his dependents. He had not got caught in about ten years before a CHL bacame possible. He NEVER talked about it to anyone except his spouse who was requested to keep quiet about it. If you carry, keep your nose clean on all other counts and do contingency planning (i.e. screen the gun with sm-th metal (like a buckle) for metal detector operators, learn to refuse searches, don't leave it unsecured). If possible, get the gun off the paper.

I am of opinion that if you fear the "law" more than you fear rapists and muggers, it is time to arm against both. But I am a known paranoic with fourteen years of Russian experience. Take my words with a grain of salt and insist on a second opinion.

BTW, SP101 would be both safer and more effective than a Lorcin. Try heavy bullets which would produce more recoil but less noise and flash and might prove more effective as well from a 2" barrel.

One other consideration: you don't fit the stereotype of a gangbanger so I wouldn't expect people to look for guns or other weapons on you unless you give them a reason to do so. You will have to be VERY circumspect and perhaps do a dry run or two with something of similar shape and weight.
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Cornered Rat
http://dd-b.net/RKBA RKBA posters
http://dd-b.net/olegv Portrait, nature photos



[This message has been edited by cornered rat (edited November 11, 1999).]
 
Title this "Beyond the orange curtain"

Lazarus, Have you considered going to college in one of the less socialist states? There must be good engineering schools willing to take someone of your obvious intelligence and achievement outside of the PRC.
 
DC:

Looks like you have some real competition around here... :) Gook luck Lazarus.



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Richard

The debate is not about guns,
but rather who has the ultimate power to rule,
the People or Government.
RKBA!
 
Bookie...
Age, experience and treachery always beats youth, beauty and enthusiasm :)

Man do I feel old now LOL

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
DC,
Remember me? Now do you feel much younger again? :D

All I have to do is think of Art Eatman to feel like a kid again! :D

(Oh, jeez! THIS one's gonna HURT! :o )

[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited November 11, 1999).]
 
Lazarus, we are fortunate to have you here on TFL. And, you speak with maturity far beyond your years. Good luck in your studies, though you sound like the type who makes her own luck. ;)

I'm not an expert on CA gun laws, but a good friend is - please check out Alan's book on CA gun laws at http://www.bloomfieldpress.com/cgog.htm , and his home page is http://www.gunlaws.com . His site has lots of good information, so spend a little time looking around.

For the governmental perspective on the issue, check out http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/ , and California's Department of 'Justice' will explain to you how they'll keep your fanny safe over there. You know how much credence to give that perspective. ;)

And finally, for a little more perspective, and just in case you haven't got the entire flavor yet, check out http://www.sksbuyback.org . A real eye-opener. ;)

Good luck to you. I hope you can help other young women wake up to the realities of life, and how they personally are being put in danger by some of the very legislation they have supported.

Regards from AZ


ps - just noticed you are in Phoenix. Alan will be happy to autograph a book for you. Another good friend is getting a new women's group going, called Mothers Arms. If you have an interest in meeting Alan, learning more about our work with Mothers Arms or even meeting a few of us for shooting, let me know in this forum and I'll drop an email to you. I also know a good gunsmith who is quite reasonable, and I'll pay to get your rifle fixed. Hope I'm not being too intrusive. Take care.



[This message has been edited by Jeff Thomas (edited November 12, 1999).]
 
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