Youth Shotgun & ~21" Barrels

J

jfruser

New member
Howdy:

How successful have the 20ga 21" bbl youth shotguns been for the youth/smaller wingshooters? Are they a viable option relative to the old 28" and 26" bbl? I ask because I could not hit anything in the air with my plain bbl Rem 12ga 1100 if I went shorter than 26". I see these youth-marketed shotguns and some have bitty 21" bbls.

Background:
My wife has expressed an interest in busting clays. She is 5' nothing and very light. I'll have her try out several shotgun makes & models before purchase, though I am inclined toward a used Rem 1100 20ga on which I can cut down the stock as I already own a 12ga Rem 1100 and know how to tear it down and keep it running (Keep some O-rings handy, too!). Also, because they are pretty light recoiling.

Thanks for any comments you may have. And feel free to suggest other shotguns that may be suitable for a smaller wingshooter. I have not bought anything but social shotguns for a bunch of years and am not familiar with current offerings.
 
I think more attention needs to be paid to the shooter rather than the gun in that situation. You should have no more problems with a 21" barrel than you do a 26-28" barrel. Sure it'll swing differently but it should be no more or less accurate. You will get a small amount less in the velocity department and about 5-7" less range.

-Scott
 
There is an advantage in that smaller statured shooters will have less weight to contend with hanging out front. I bought a youth 1100 for my stepson and he did fine with it; not having any experts hanging over him to tell him he really needed a 30" barrel to shoot skeet with. :) I have successfully started several young people shooting shotguns, including my daughters, and several ladies, with an LT 20 Model 1100. I think it is an excellent choice. That steel action sleeve really soaks up peak recoil.
 
A lot of short guns....tend to be whippy ...causing jerky swings vs smooth swings - especially on the follow thru. You can compensate - if she needs to shoot a real light gun - by going a little longer / because the longer sight plane on a lighter gun - will help smooth out the swing / where short and light tend to be real difficult to shoot smoothly. ( but you sure don't need 30" barrels on an 8.5 lb gun to shoot Skeet or any other target game )...

However, I've stayed with 28" or 30" barrels in shotguns for my younger grandkids.../ and more than length - I find the overall weight of the gun is a big deal / because upper body strength is usually the limiting factor. So its about finding that gun ....in maybe a 6.5 to 7.0 lb range ...that she can swing easily and effectively...its not so much about the barrel length.

The 1100's are pretty heavy ..../ but if you modify the stock...and stay with a 26" or a 28" barrel...it may be just fine for her.
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Two newer guns that I like as well for "slighter built" shooters...

Browning Silver series - semi-auto's//// they make a Hunter model and a Hunter micro model ( and in 20ga ... they have 28" barrels at 6# 7oz, a 26" at 6# 5oz / and in micro with a 13" LOP and weight of 6 lbs...) all good solid guns / all gas guns.... and available new at around $1,000 or so.

http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/detail.asp?fid=020B&cid=011&tid=389

Another gun I like ( even though its an Inertia gun ) is the Benelli Super Sport and in a 20ga they make it in a 28" barrel ...at right around 6 lbs...and since it has the Comfort Tech system in it, it is a soft shooting gun..and the gel pad on top of the comb, as well as the gel pad at the heel can be changed ( they have 3 sizes of each )......./ you can load some lighter velocity shells in 20ga ....and as long as they are at 1200 fps ( 3/4 oz loads in the 20ga ) will cycle my super sport -- keep it clean and well lubed.....but the downside is you're going to have to pay about $ 1,900 for a new one.

Some of my grandkids that are just starting to shoot.../ they're still in that "skinny" phase at 11 and 12 yrs old ... 5' whatever and 100 lbs soaking wet...but they can all handle the Benelli Super Sport 20ga with no problems...( 2 to 4 boxes a day for them ) - and they like the synthetic look.../ they prefer it over the Browning Silver series in the 20ga ( I went with the 28" version in the Silver Hunter ) ...both guns are several yrs old now../ I have a Super Sport in 12ga ..and 30" barrel ...and some of the older teenagers like that gun as well too.

But I think they're both good options...if the 1100's don't work for her.

In my family --- the kids go from skinny one summer...( girls and boys ) to bigger kids almost overnite ( from 11 and 12 -- to 15 or 16 )....it seems like, and they move up to a 20ga or 28 ga over under at around 7.5 lbs pretty quickly as well.../ and I have 6 grandkids( boys and girls ) in the 11 - 23 yr old range...and both Super Sports and the Silver Hunter get a lot of use...as they transition thru - to the Over Unders/ and all 3 of those guns have worked well for teaching them.
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So I think the weight and balance ...is the key you're looking for.../ and for lords sake, let her pick her own gun out...!! ( and her own vest, etc / or whatever else she wants ).....
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A good shooting vest is a big deal.../ when I found a sale a few yrs ago ....I picked up several in Small, Med, Lge...in neutral colors ...and good for lefties and right handed shooters...that all the kids use as they grow...( Cabelas, Sportsman's warehouse, etc ...all have their house brands...)....
 
I spend a good amount of time helping fit shotguns to youth and women. One of my favorites is a Browning Golden Clays (no longer made). Gas system that has some adjustability and self-regulation, ported and not too heavy.

21", 24". 26" matters not as long as the shotgun is properly fit to the shooter.

With the new loads that have come out in the past few years, it has really taken the 20 gauge out of the lead for soft recoiling leader.

The Remington VersaMax really is softer shooting than all the 20s I have tried. The negative is that is is heavier (helps with recoil). After some break-in, it will run the 980 to 1100 fps low recoil loads that the other auto-loaders will not. The Benelli Ethos is really close and I would put it in the second lightest recoiling shotgun in between the VersaMax and the Golden Clays.

About a month ago, the fiance of a good friend decided to take up shotgunning (trap, skeet, SC, etc.) She tried a bunch of shotguns, including 20s and 12s and decided on the Golden Clays 12, which it took him a week to find a good deal on one. The VersaMax was not visually appealing to her. She is just over 5' and was emphatic that with the light target loads, it was softer than the 20g 1100. My son is 12, just under 5 foot. He runs the VersaMax like a champ and he had no question it is easier to shoot, and softer than the 20 gauge auto-loaders.

He shot over 100 rounds on Saturday, 5 clean stages with aerials and slugs.

10690270_1486119258338964_2134765033568077874_n.jpg


The one he is shooting has a 21" barrel.
 


Thank you for all the input.

Question:
Any thoughts regarding 20ga O/U in general for smaller wingshooters or the Stoeger Condor or Mossberg O/U in particular?

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OK, to digest so far.

1 Observations
1.1 21" bbl is no big whoop, but
1.1.1 A longer bbl might swing more smoothly
1.1.2 A longer bbl will give a longer sight radius

2 New Manufacture Make/Model Options
2.1 Rem 11-87 Compact 20ga
2.1.1 http://remington.com/products/firea.../model-11-87-sportsman-compact-synthetic.aspx
2.1.2 $804 retail
2.1.3 6.5lbs
2.2 Browning Silver Sporting Micro 20ga
2.2.1 http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/detail.asp?fid=020B&cid=011&tid=373
2.2.2 $1300 retail
2.2.3 7.0lbs
2.3 Benelli Super Sport 20ga
2.3.1 http://www.benelliusa.com/supersport-shotgun#specifications-section
2.3.2 $2199 retail
2.3.3 6.3lbs
2.4 Remington VersaMax 12ga
2.4.1 http://remington.com/products/firearms/tactical/shotguns/versa-max-tactical.aspx
2.4.2 $1427 retail
2.4.3 7.75lbs
2.4.4 No 20ga Options Shown 2014-09-23; Closest is Tactical
2.5 Rem 1100 20ga Sporting Series
2.5.1 http://remington.com/products/firearms/shotguns/model-1100/model-1100-sporting-series.aspx
2.5.2 $1230 retail
2.5.3 7.0lbs
2.5.4 Used specimens pop up regularly in the $300-$400 price range.

===============

Other Observations & Ruminations:

Pumps can be had cheap, but have zero recoil reduction and are as long as semi-autos. There are some semi-autos I will not waste my time on. I was really frustrated as a kid with a Mossberg semi-auto that never ran right. When I got the Rem 1100, I was ecstatic.

I looked into O/U in an effort to reduce weight/length. Most are WAY out of my price range for this task. Relative to a semi-auto they are lighter, shorter, but have more recoil. The Stoeger and Mossbergs are in the realm of reasonable, price-wise.

3 O/U New Manuf Options
3.1 Stoeger Condor Youth 20ga
2.1.1 http://www.stoegerindustries.com/condor-youth-shotgun
2.1.2 $449 retail
2.1.3 5.5lbs

Mossberg also produces O/U shotguns in 20ga in the ~$750 range ret.

Any thoughts regarding O/U in general for smaller wingshooters or the Stoeger Condor or Mossberg O/U in particular?

It is almost certain I will buy used. Hard to justify new cost for semi-auto shotguns in a general sporting application. I have no problem cutting down a stock my own self, or installing a "youth" stock. I know a reputable gunsmith who can install removable chokes on a fixed choke bbl for ~$100 (and cut to desired length).



 
I would not get anything other than a good O/U. If you want to go cheap, keep it simple. Used would not bother me in a Beretta or a Browning, but I really don't like O/Us anyway.
You may well find you need to do some customizing to make the gun fit just right, and this is FAR easier, and cheaper, with a repeater. There are a lot of stocks on ebay if you want to play cut and try and add a good pad.
Benellis are inertia action (except the M4), and inertia does nothing to reduce recoil. I did not say they don't work.
After she gets to shooting she may form some of her own tastes, plus she will realize she does not need to hold the gun up for along time - throw it up and shoot and lower it, and then you may be able to go to a heavier, more permanent, nicer gun. My LT20 1100 with the 26" skeet barrel weighed less than the Youth Model I bought for my stepson. Polishing does remove some weight. And if you get a fixed choke barrel and get it fitted with tubes it will be lighter than a RemChoke barrel, since they don't make a Light Contour in 20 gauge.
Good luck.
 
Stoeger and Mossberg O/U's - in general - are poor quality guns. There are other threads on the forum discussing them in some detail. But I think they're bad choices....

A 28" barreled semi-auto or pump gun ...are roughly equal in overall length to an Over Under with a 30" barrel / 28" O/U ~ 26" barrel on semi-auto or pump..../ weight - as you said varies by mfg and gun type...

Browning and Beretta - by far - will give you the most gun for the money in O/U's....even in field grade guns.

There are some "field grade" O/U's out there from Browning and Beretta ....especially if the stocks have been pretty beat up ...at a good price ( and some sand paper, a little stain ...and some man hours ) can make it a pretty nice looking gun ....but you're still looking at $ 800 - $1,000 for that gun, with the beat up stock, if the gun is otherwise in good shape / but they're very good buys if you find one. There are some older versions around too ...with fixed chokes...and you would need to fit them for screw in chokes to make them more versatile - but I wouldn't exclude them either in terms of value.
 
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