Your 'proficiency'

D

Don Mallard

New member
How good a shot are you with your revolver--any of them?
Have you been evaluated?
If not then evaluate yourself with this simple test which is a good indicator.
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wadcutters are as good as any for this exercise
Your target is a black sheet of poster paper .
On and in the center of it 'attach' a bright industrial orange 2" circle which you have cut from a sheet of that colored poster paper.

Set up the target so the center of it is level with the center of your body.
Wait until dark.
7yd line
hold your revolver at your side as if you had just gotten out of bed to investigate a in -your- house disturbance.
Hold your flashlight in the other hand with it turned off--at first.
Extend your flashlight 'hand' all the way out. (If you are fortunate enough to have lived long enough to get to this point then don't hold the light in close to your body because when you receive fire the shooter will be shooting at the light)---that is not theory and when you conduct LEO insertions you will be wearing a bullet proof vest and thusly your chances of survival will be somewhat improved. If you choose to shoot for 'center of mass' then figure out--now--how you can defeat the ones the criminals wear!
Turn your light on and fire a single shot as quickly as you can at the center.
Do that single shot at a time until you have fired 50 rounds.
How many did you put in the 2"?
How many can you put in the 2" without using your sights to aim?
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It will do no one any good but you -or your family- to master your revolver.
Have you ever began at the 'starting point'--which is the 7 yd line--and fired 100,000 rounds before you ventured to other stations of the course?
I did my first 100,000 in 40 days.
Why not begin yours?
You cannot learn -much less master-your revovler at some high dollar 'training course' or even a basic military or LEO school.
There is no substitute for proficiency and that only comes after many,many months of practice.
Don Mallard
 
I did my first 100,000 in 40 days.
Click to expand...

That's a lot of shooting!

Assuming 12 hours on the firing line per day, that's 208 rounds an hour, 12 hours a day, seven days a week, for 40 days straight! :eek: (100k of Georgia Arms cheapest .357 would be $16,000!!! A strong argument for reloading!)
 
Silly me!!

I was thinking that top IPSC shooters fire about 35'000-50'000 rounds a year :D !! ...most probably they progress forward of the 7 yard line after two or three years of this regime ;) .
 
2500 rds

That's 2500 rounds each day
Wadcutters
State DPS provided
all at the 7
load and fire 5
that's 312 per hour for 8 hours
the rounds are loaded from loose in front pocket
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That is not as much as it sounds
The PPC Course is 50 rounds from the 7 to the 50 and that takes a very few minutes--in practice--as opposed to the competition timed event.

I have instructed LEO and civilians alike for 30 years and with sucess. The cost of practice ammo is one reason I highly suggest the civilians use a K frame .22.
The key is to master the basics of the gun concerning the unaimed shot.
Using the sights for the 7 yd shots is like cheating in high school typing class by looking at the keys as you type.
Don Mallard
 
What good is it going to do me to shoot 100,000 rounds with a flashlight and a .22 when my defense tools will not include either one?

Point shooting is gun-specific.

Shooting a lot is a good idea, but shooting a lot with one gun and defending yourself with another is not.

Send me 100,000 rounds of .45ACP or .44Mag, and I will commence my training. Let me know when the shipment is to arrive, the truck driver may need me to provide a fork-lift.:)
 
I guess I'm not very profecient with mine then... never thought about shooting circles in the dark with a flashlight. Hitting groundhogs and wee bitty circles at 200+ yards with a revolver ain't the same.. guess I'll have to move back to the 7 yard line and start that 100,000 round thing... Then had myself evaluated. Interesting to read how others become profecient with their handguns, different expectations and standards for different folks I guess..

I know you are talking about self defense training here but if you become profecient at just shooting and hitting what you are aiming at then you'll be able to hit something that's close enough for you to reach out and touch them. I'll guarantee you that if they are in the dark and they fire a gun, they'll not be able to see and probably neither will you for a while after that, if you point in the direction of the shot chances are really good that you'll either hit the BG, shoot thru the wall and hit one of the kids sleeping in the room nextdoor or scare the Hell out of the BG and he'll be heading for the nearest way out.

I agree with you that people that want to own a gun for self protection should become aquainted with the way the gun operates and functions so they can use it in the dark when it might be needed. They also need to be able to jsut pick it up and point it and shoot for self defense at those distances, trying to take time to aim may get them killed but they also need to be aware that there should be a definite recognition of the target so they don't just point and shoot and possibly shoot one of their family members heading for the bathroom. I have not taken LEO training so I can't speak with any authority on how they are trained to react to a situation such as this but I sure would not want to turn on a flashlight on and allow the the BG to see where I was.

Just my thoughts, it's interesting to see how others feel about this topic, it's something we all hope never happens but realize the possiblilty is always there.

Topstrap
 
AR-10

What good would it do 'YOU' to adhere to basics of the revolver which have been taught long before I was born and probably you? and that is with .22 and wadcutters------The key is Basics'
Since you do not place any confidence in infomation which is not my idea--I doubt that you could be taught.
Don Mallard
 
Pistol shooting is a perishable skill, which must be replenished regularly. Certainly more practice is a good thing.

But 5 rounds every 11.58 seconds... loaded loose from the shirt pocket? (Are we then shooting from the holster?) From a revolver? Without a break? For eight hours a day? Every day? Without a single day off? For just under 6 weeks? From the SAME position?

Look, I like to shoot. I really do. But you'd have to be pointing that gun at me to get me to do that for more than a week.

I, personally, have also over-estimated how much shooting I've done on a gun or in a shooting period. And I got called on it, and I felt kinda silly.
 
How many can you put in the 2" without using your sights to aim?
Click to expand...

Ok, after 100K how many do you get in the circle without sights?
I can tell you that under those conditions I would be lucky to keep 50 rounds on the paper. Just curious how good point shooting can be.

FWIW, Instead of four solid days of shooting, I put my faith in night sights. I figure there should be enough ambient light to see the target, and if not, then he can't see me either so he isn't a threat. I do believe in flashlights though. Target ID is a good thing.
 
Once I had a student that fired 600 rounds with a revolver (at 7 yards) in about two hours (I just let him go, just to see the result). At the end of it he had learned nothing and his trigger finger was bleeding.
When I took my Pistol I course at Blackwater, last year, we were firing about 350-400 rounds a day and we learned a lot.
Firing a lot of rounds, is good but I think you need to be at an advanced level before you start to get some benefit out of it.
Don Mallard's drill is good, and I'll be sure to give it a try (not 100k though!)
...and from here on it will be known as the "Don Drill" :D
 
I spent two hours this morning composing and editing a post and ended up canning it.

I understand that good shooting skills hinge on certain basics like trigger control, muzzle control, and proper sight picture.

I also understand that defensive point shooting requires a lot of practice, and some degree of the use of good shooting skills, although sight picture and trigger control slip a lot in quality of application when speed is of the essence.

I also think that practicing as you would hope to perform is very important. That is why I practice close range point shooting. I cannot imagine that under a highly stressfull situation that involves me pulling and pointing a firearm at another indivdual I would have the luxury of time or the presence of mind to aquire a proper sight picture.

What I thought was odd was that you do not specifically say that you should practice this routine with your defensive weapon. Point shooting a K-frame .22 all day long is not going to help me acheive proficiency with a J-frame .357.

The use of a flashlight falls into the catagory of individual needs. The way the lighting is set up in my home I would not need suplimental lighting in the middle of the night. As I do not carry one with me while I am out after dark, I don't see the need to practice with one. Maybe that is short-sighted on my part.

The bottom line is, I can't afford to shoot 100,000 rounds of any ammo over a three month period, and hefting a full size revolver and a flashlight 2,000 plus times a day for a week straight would give me joint damage. If you can do it, my hat is off to you.

Sorry that I poked fun at you, but 100,000 rounds of wad-cutters is two hundred cases, which is a fair sized pallet of ammo.
 
and yes..........

100,000 rounds is a lot .
The first Tactical/LE organization in our country was in 1967. My state initiated theirs in 1969. I was in that class of Troopers.
Our job was that of paramilitary.
Our training was that of firearms and tactical procedures and responsible actions with our weapons.
Every Pistol team member shoots full time same with special teams members.
All day
Everyday
that is the nature of it.
A civilian cannot afford to do that and does not have full time to devote to doing that.
The point of the evaluation which I suggested is not my idea.
It is exactly what I mentioned---a evaluation ----where by any handgunner can determine his profeciency---IF--he chooses to do so.
The 'KEY' is to become familar with the basics of-in this case-the revolver
Then to master the many exercises.
The .22 revolver is a wonderful tool which enables handgunners to learn the very basics of the handgun and without fear from recoil and the cost of rimfire ammo is low.
It is just one very small step in the order of achieving a degree of profeciency.
The flash light exercise is for a specific purpose
It is a proven training exercise which puts the shooter in a position which they probably have never been and that is night fire.
It prevents the shooter from using the daylight to assist them and it prevents the shooter from using both hands on the gun.
Those simple exercises are not to teach a person to practice with one gun and then defend themselves with another but rather they are just training tools.
My email is available and I have gotten replies from shooters who have stated they had never done those exercises but they decided to try it and they did. Now they understand more about their own ability with their handgun than before.
The only way I can help keep the art of the handgun alive is to give my aquired knowledge and experience away to those who might be interested.
If you would care to try the flashlight exercise then you might create some new interest and desire from inside of you.
I assure you that I will not suggest something which is my idea.
I will,however,pass along factual information.
I could write a book but it would be filled with information which was passed on to me from other handgunners who have gone this way before me.
Don Mallard
 
So which state funded 100k rounds per trooper over 6 weeks? Me, I'm having trouble getting my dept to donate 50 rds per officer per month. That's one reason I love to sign up for the firearms classes-- they actually have to buy my ammo for what I was doing anyway.

:p
 
Long Path

That is Mississippi DPS
There are never more than 350 Troopers
41 time national and 9 time World Police Pistol Champions
You probably know the NRA Nationals are held at our State Range.
I know personnel from all over our nation and I understand the delima their departments are in concerning expenditures.
Look at the literal facts concerning us and you will understand how our achievments are possible.
In my Academy class--551 made application and 181 were accepted and 19 of us graduated.
Our ridgid course is not akin to the big city or large Police Departments who put large percentages of Cadets in uniform.
If you are one of us then you are furnished with all the ammo and first rate equipment that money will buy and yes 100000 rounds is a initial beginning on the line with us. That is out of the question for those who do not shoot as a matter of job requirement. The U.S. BorderPatrol and the FBI are the only LEDepts that I am familar with who shoot as much as we do.
And it simply is not financially possible to provide that level of supply to the rank and file Officer in large departments.
Our DPS was formed in 1936
My class of 69 was only the tenth since the first one.
It is very difficult to make it thru our Academy and the turnover is not high.
It all comes down,concerning Law Enforcement Departments, what the city or state sets as their priorities for their members.
Don Mallard
 
100,000 rounds shooting in the dark with a flashlight is something I'm sure very few people on this planet will ever accomplish! I certainly will not! Especially in 6 weeks!

The quality of training is a hell of a lot more important in my opinion. To say that someone is now proficient just because they have fired a specified number of shots is ridiculous. Everyone's natural ability and skill is going to be different. I have watched shooters "spray" hundreds of rounds down range and still can't hit squat!
 
With NO practice

I can turn on a flashlight, throw it across the room as a distraction and dive under the bed cowering with my revolver in 2.6 seconds.
Unless I am REALLY sleepy.
:D
 
629 Shooter

That is 50 rounds for a simple night fire exercise --not 100,000
The quality of the traning is -of course-paramount.
Don Mallard
 
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