Youngsters first rifle?
- Thread starter flyfrod
- Start date
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=496049
Here's a topic started not too long ago on a similar subject. The other person asking the question listed some more specific parameters and the youngster was 12, but many of the responses will be the same.
Aside from the .243, the 30-30 seems to be a popular choice. People seem to like CZ 527 bolt actions in 7.62x39 as well.
I like a .357 carbine depending on your needs. With .38 specials, practice is cheap and pleasant (low noise and recoil). 38s can also be used for small game. Hotter .357 ammo can take deer at modest ranges.
I think any of the cartridges I mentioned can be found in single shot platforms. I never used single shots until I'd already been shooting for many years, but now that I have used them, I think it might be what I'd start a child on so as to promote making every shot count.
Here's a topic started not too long ago on a similar subject. The other person asking the question listed some more specific parameters and the youngster was 12, but many of the responses will be the same.
Aside from the .243, the 30-30 seems to be a popular choice. People seem to like CZ 527 bolt actions in 7.62x39 as well.
I like a .357 carbine depending on your needs. With .38 specials, practice is cheap and pleasant (low noise and recoil). 38s can also be used for small game. Hotter .357 ammo can take deer at modest ranges.
I think any of the cartridges I mentioned can be found in single shot platforms. I never used single shots until I'd already been shooting for many years, but now that I have used them, I think it might be what I'd start a child on so as to promote making every shot count.
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Have you already had him shooting a .22 lr? If you haven't you should really consider that for his first rifle. I really don't recommend starting a kid out with a centerfire.
Some kids can handle the .243 Win but I'd say your best bet would be a .223 or .204 for a 9 year old. My daughter started with the .22 lr at age 6 moved up to .223 at 8 and she will be there awhile. I did just pick her up a .250 Savage for when she is ready for a larger rifle.
Some kids can handle the .243 Win but I'd say your best bet would be a .223 or .204 for a 9 year old. My daughter started with the .22 lr at age 6 moved up to .223 at 8 and she will be there awhile. I did just pick her up a .250 Savage for when she is ready for a larger rifle.
Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
New member
Flyfrod,
I'll send a question back your way. Do you reload?
Back to that in a minute. You may need to buy a youth rifle to get something that fits properly unless the 9 year old is big for his age.
Now, if you reload, an easy answer to your situation is reduced loads.
If you have hunted and taken game animals, how many times have you felt the recoil or heard the blast of your shot?
I'd guess seldom if ever.
The point to that being if the rifle fits correctly so the shooter doesn't get a scope bite, the recoil of a full power hunting load fired at game is a non issue if the rifle is of reasonable size/recoil.
Soooooooooo, in my case, I have loaded reduced practice loads for family members and friends who were shooting 270s.
Load the lightest bullet you can find, load a proper powder which provides a safe reduced load/velocity and head for the range.
Use small targets in close - dime or quarter size, and the relationship with a larger target/critter at normal hunting ranges will be close to the same.
Make it reduced loads with the targets in close and be sure you take enough ammo as young people can burn up a lot when they are having fun.
Another plus is, the reduced loads cause less heat build up in the barrel, so there is more shooting and less waiting for the barrel to cool.
Also, you do the pre season sight in from the bench, with the normal power hunting loads.
Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
I'll send a question back your way. Do you reload?
Back to that in a minute. You may need to buy a youth rifle to get something that fits properly unless the 9 year old is big for his age.
Now, if you reload, an easy answer to your situation is reduced loads.
If you have hunted and taken game animals, how many times have you felt the recoil or heard the blast of your shot?
I'd guess seldom if ever.
The point to that being if the rifle fits correctly so the shooter doesn't get a scope bite, the recoil of a full power hunting load fired at game is a non issue if the rifle is of reasonable size/recoil.
Soooooooooo, in my case, I have loaded reduced practice loads for family members and friends who were shooting 270s.
Load the lightest bullet you can find, load a proper powder which provides a safe reduced load/velocity and head for the range.
Use small targets in close - dime or quarter size, and the relationship with a larger target/critter at normal hunting ranges will be close to the same.
Make it reduced loads with the targets in close and be sure you take enough ammo as young people can burn up a lot when they are having fun.
Another plus is, the reduced loads cause less heat build up in the barrel, so there is more shooting and less waiting for the barrel to cool.
Also, you do the pre season sight in from the bench, with the normal power hunting loads.
Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
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Yes I do reload. He started out with my 22lr a couple of years ago. This will be for whitetail in pa. Ultimately this is going to be his gun but I'm looking for something to play with as far as reloading. I've looked at the 257 roberts and 25-06. Would a 270 wsm be a lot of recoil? He's shot my 223 and likes it but for a deer rifle I'm not so sure. I took a deer with it to see if I could but not total convinced. My 7mm08 is a youth model 7 but he says it's a little bit to much recoil for him yet.
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allaroundhunter
New member
Yes, a .270 WSM is a lot of recoil, especially for a 9 year old. I had to add a limbsaver on my Savage to be able to make it 20 rounds in a single range trip (I'm 20, no arthritis or other problems). My new .308 is easy, but that .270 WSM does not get shot as much due to the recoil.
The .25-06 is a good choice, as is the 7mm-08 that you already have. Also, the .243 that your dad owns is a hard guj to beat for a first centerfire rifle. If you are dead set on getting him a new rifle though, I would go with the .25-06, minimal recoil, and capable of most any game in North America. The only possible downside that I can think of for the .25-06 is that it is a long action, I prefer short actions, but that is just me.
Another option you have is reloading lighter loads for a .308 Win, which can be a fun gun to reload for and will last him forever.
If the 7mm-08 is too much recoil, then it might just be the fit of the rifle. However, it would make me cautious to get him anything above .243 Win. If it is legal to use the .223 for hinting deer in PA, then consider letting him use it. Make some reloads with the Barnes TSX or another good hunting bullet and it is a capable deer round.
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There you go that is the perfect rifle for your son if he fits the stock. You should go to Hogdon's web site and look up their reduced youth loads. Load up some of the loads listed with H4895 and a 120 grain bullet. With a velocity around 2500 fps, and very mild report and recoil he should be shooting it well in no time. You can work him up to full power loads as he ages and can tolerate recoil better.
You can always pick up a Lyman reloading manual and reload that 7-08 using their cast bullet data. You don'thave to use cast bullets unless you want to. It will probably have loads down around 1800-2000 fps for even lighter recoil.
Go buy yourself a new rifle to reload for and enjoy. There wil be plenty of time to get your son another rifle as he gets older and you and him figure out what he wants. But what do I know I just dropped a $1000 on a custom built .250 Savage so my daughter would have a deer rifle that fits her besides a .223 that I had the stock cut down on.
Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
New member
OK, you reload.
As I said, "reduced loads"
With you sighting in before the season with the standard hunting loads, he will not feel the shot or two he takes at game.
There is no reason at all NOT to use the reduced load method for his practice with the 7mm/08.
Light bullet and proper charge of the proper powder and the rifle will be a joy for him to shoot, plus you'll likely be kept busy loading more practice ammo for him.
Also, as said, use the close in targets. No need to be shooting way out there for practice if he is using a scope.
Just remember, the proper powder for reduced loads IS NOT a light charge of the typical and slower rifle powder. That can be a major problem!
Pick up a Lyman cast bullet loading manuel and there is plenty of suggestions in those pages for loading reduced loads. They, however, don't refer to them as "reduced" loads, but rather as cast bullet loads.
As I recall, I used RedDot for reduced loads in the 270 with a 100 or 110gr bullet. Worked great!
Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
As I said, "reduced loads"
With you sighting in before the season with the standard hunting loads, he will not feel the shot or two he takes at game.
There is no reason at all NOT to use the reduced load method for his practice with the 7mm/08.
Light bullet and proper charge of the proper powder and the rifle will be a joy for him to shoot, plus you'll likely be kept busy loading more practice ammo for him.
Also, as said, use the close in targets. No need to be shooting way out there for practice if he is using a scope.
Just remember, the proper powder for reduced loads IS NOT a light charge of the typical and slower rifle powder. That can be a major problem!
Pick up a Lyman cast bullet loading manuel and there is plenty of suggestions in those pages for loading reduced loads. They, however, don't refer to them as "reduced" loads, but rather as cast bullet loads.
As I recall, I used RedDot for reduced loads in the 270 with a 100 or 110gr bullet. Worked great!
Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
Crusty,
A lot of those "Reduced/Cast Loads" are plenty capable of bringing down a deer as well at reasonalbe ranges. I wouldn't hesitate to let my daughter use one of them out to 100 yards. I don't feel that there is any need to go to full power loads right before hunting, I'd just let her shoot what she is comfortable with.
A lot of those "Reduced/Cast Loads" are plenty capable of bringing down a deer as well at reasonalbe ranges. I wouldn't hesitate to let my daughter use one of them out to 100 yards. I don't feel that there is any need to go to full power loads right before hunting, I'd just let her shoot what she is comfortable with.
Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
New member
Taylorce,
Because I use light, as light as I can get for reduced loads, these bullets are simply not of the integrity to be used on game animals.
They are for vermin and not critters the size of deer.
I don't go there as meat is important to me, and I have no desire to damage any more of it then is needed.
So, I would not use bullets that are made to blow up on small furry little critters if I am seeking a game animal.
CDOC
Because I use light, as light as I can get for reduced loads, these bullets are simply not of the integrity to be used on game animals.
They are for vermin and not critters the size of deer.
I don't go there as meat is important to me, and I have no desire to damage any more of it then is needed.
So, I would not use bullets that are made to blow up on small furry little critters if I am seeking a game animal.
CDOC
chucknbach
New member
Kids are all different. My daughter, now 13, is the very smallest in her grade. All though the noise is a mental block for her when she hasn't shot her .243 in a while once she gets going she has no problems.
My middle son started shooting the .243 at six. I didn't want him shooting it so young but he kept begging. After his first shot, I apprehensively asked if he wanted to shoot again, he said "Yeah, but stand behind me dad so it doesn't knock me off the bench".
My oldest son (12) will be hunting with a 7mm-08 this year. He's also small for his age.
chucknbach
New member
30-30 or a .357 lever action would work good in Pa. plus their fun to shoot.
Have had both at one time.
Have had both at one time.My 9 year old's favorite rifle is my Ruger Frontier in 7-08, which I run light recoil handloads (38 grains of IMR4064 under a 139gr BTSP) in ...... the rifle is just the right size and scale for little kids, yet is heavy enough to mitigate the recoil somewhat. The light loads are still pretty potent- about 2400 f/sec- similar to 30/30 energy levels, but with much more efficient bullets. Will do bambi in with authority out to any range a 9 year old has any business shooting a carbine sized rifle at....... if I could get a can put on it, it would be the perfect little kid's deer gun.
Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
New member
Yep Jimbob86,
As I indicated earlier, reduced loads allow for the safe, easy, fun!!! shooting of rifles which with normal ammo would not provide a good shooting experience during practice.
As also stated, within reason, not talking .458 or .460 Rigby etc. here - the hunter does not feel the recoil of a shot or two fired at game. Just to much other stuff going on in the hunter's mind at that point.
CDOC
As I indicated earlier, reduced loads allow for the safe, easy, fun!!! shooting of rifles which with normal ammo would not provide a good shooting experience during practice.
As also stated, within reason, not talking .458 or .460 Rigby etc. here - the hunter does not feel the recoil of a shot or two fired at game. Just to much other stuff going on in the hunter's mind at that point.
CDOC
Single Six
New member
For teaching the basics, I'd recommend a 10/22. For a first hunting rifle...have you considered a 25.06? The first rifle I ever fired was one of these, and as I recall, the recoil was [for me] pretty tolerable.
Just because they are "reduced" loads does not mean they won't kill deer deader'n' a hammer- that gun was used by my niece to drop a 4 1/2 y.o. 200 lb buck last November from about 40 yards..... quartering away, bullet passed through the top of both lungs, breaking a rib high upon the far side and coming to rest just under the hide...... deer ran maybe another 40-50 yards and piled up.
That bullet would still be packing 1000+ ft/lbs of energy at 300 yards.
That bullet would still be packing 1000+ ft/lbs of energy at 300 yards.