You know your country is no longer free when....

This is a compilation of thoughts expressed by other people, which echo my own. I have said these same things many times, so I feel no need to quote or credit anyone in particular for borrowing their words, which I have often expressed likewise.

You know your country is no longer free when.......


*after getting hit by a hurricane and the only thing that people want is ice to prevent their food from spoiling, an ice making company starts selling ice off of their loading dock and the city shuts it down because they don't have a retail license.

*the police shut down a children's lemonade stand because they didn't have a permit.

*Your tax payments are near equal, or greater than your take home pay.

*You need a permit to build a fire.

*you have to think about what you should actually post on the internet.

*The government can take your property and give it to anyone they please.

*the government wiretaps everone.

*you have to pay taxes after you die.

*your wife has to sell her home to pay those taxes.

*you have to pay education taxes yet have no kids of your own.

*a student can't bring a paring knife in their lunch box to peel an apple.

*your government believes that torture is a valid interrogation tool.

*your own government sells all of its citizens into financial slavery to a Private Corporation.(Federal Reserve)

*your library checkout log can be obtained by the government to check and see what books you are reading.

*that you must pass a high stakes test to prove you are educated, and it's more important how you state things on the test rather than having the correct answer.

*that you can be prosecuted for not giving your kids psychotropic medications when the state deems it necessary, while outlawing natural medically useful drugs.

*learning to be self-sufficient is viewed as being suspicious.

*using cash for a large purchase is suspicious activity.

*buying a ticket for cash or a one way ticket is suspicious activity.

*you must present gubbmint i.d. for virtually everything.

*If you object to gubbmint listening to every form of communication possible you are probably a criminal because after all , "if you don't have anything to hide...."

*you are numbered from birth in the sense that cattle are branded, and identified with a card that was never intended, and forbidden to be used as identification.

*you must pass a metal detector and show proper i.d. to gain entry to gubbmint buildings, where the "people's business is conducted."

*you don't have the right to travel without gubbmint permission because your passport is gubbmint property and must be surrendered on demand.

*You must declare cash or financial instruments ten thousand dollars or over on leaving the country or you are defacto a drug dealer and criminal.

*Banks must report any "suspicious activity" which is virtually everything because they fear fincen and fedguv.

*Banks require your national i.d. number even if the account is non interest bearing

*If you are on public lands and you find and take with you an arrowheard, you are a criminal.

*every source of income must be reported or you are a criminal and tax cheat

*You must be licensed for virtually any occupation or business because there is no free market and the various gubbmints need their cut

*there is no such thing as conscience or moral conduct as a defense, and judges aren't required to fully inform their juries on the right to nullify.

*Follow orders or you are a state criminal. Nuremberg was a long time ago

*Civil society is diminished and the state becomes more and more important.
Except those members of civil society who are de facto part of and approved by the state.

*Protestors must protest from designated spaces and must obtain a permit.

*Presidents can initiate war because they want to. The number one charge at Nuremberg, aggressive war, is now inoperative.

*They have the balls to declare certain areas "free-speech zones".

*If you don't pay your rent to the state they will take your land and maybe kill or imprison you.

*you must be properly deferential to the police or authority because if you don't they will take your property and maybe kill or imprison you.

*the supreme court can decide today that a right you had yesterday is not valid today. The idea that maybe rights aren't gubbmint granted is now inoperative, though it was ratified as a self-evident truth.

*No knock swat style raids and militarization of the police are good things. And if you question this you are most likely a criminal or terrorist.

*Anyone who brings up the bill of rights or declaration of independence or constitution just doesn't understand "our system" and is probably a criminal.

*If you refuse to accept, and provide on demand as a trained chimp, approved government I.D. whenever questioned, at threat of force being used to put you in prison.

*the police lie to get a warrant, bust down your door, and kill you for defending yourself and your family then find out they had the wrong house. Additional insult: All of the police involved are still working and aren't in prison.

*the U.S. Atty General says that Habeas Corpus is no more.

*secret warrants are issued by secret judges in secret courts and served by secret cops. The poor citizen is then taken to secret lock ups where NO lawyer can be had.

*your wife and young teenage son are MURDERED by FBI sharpshooters over a disputed tax of only $200, THEN you are cornered in your home with wounded friend and all of you are fearful of coming out for fear that you will be mowed down just like your wife and son.

*ALL those of the government agencies who committed these crimes are all rewarded and promoted rather than tried, convicted, and jailed as they should be.

*your local county commissioners spend weeks discussing exactly how a lap-dance is to be performed, and bust those doing it "wrong"

*growing certain plants can get you fined, jailed, or killed

*selling sexual aids can get you imprisoned

*Your "equally checked and balanced "President can rule by proclamation.(executive order)





Feel free to add to this list.......or debate.

Kind of reminds me of places where they give "directions" on how to properly beat your wife, legally, of course. :barf:

http://filecabi.net/video/mwifebeatings.html
 
*you have to pay education taxes yet have no kids of your own.

I will agree with a lot of those. I can even remember when as a 2nd grader I brought a pocket knife to class and all the teacher did was take it away, if that was now I'd have been expelled. But I have to disagree with the one I quoted. As far as I can remember, since the inception of this nation there have been very few duty's made of the citizens of this nation but serving in the military in times of a draft, jury duty and paying taxes have ALWAYS been the dutys on an american citizen. And as having a strong educational system is so critical to the success of the next generation and the u.s. remaking a super power in the world I don't think any one has any business complaining about paying education taxes even if they don't have kids of their own.
 
The public education system is a failure. Public school is just another name for government school. When you are funded by government, you will tell the students that gubbermint is the answer. All of these people that subscribe to gov this and gov that are the problem. Public schools helped to create this BS environment that we find ourselves wading through.

Yeah... a strong, privately funded, education system is needed. Schools in the beginning of this country were all private schools. Only thing we don't need is private armies.

Who tried to fix what was never broken? Why? :confused:

Public schools are very much like zombies. They are mindless and nearly unstoppable. Good luck fixing the standard of government. SNAFU is normal. Why would someone want to send a child to an indoctrination center? I guess wonders never cease. :rolleyes:

Don't worry, we are going to receive that which we have earned. We will be rewarded. People always get what they deserve. All in due time.

Free... nothing is free forever.
 
I'll add one:
* To send your child to be indoctrinated at public school is free aside from your taxes. To teach your own child, you need gubbmint approval and to pay several thousands of dollars per year to provide your own textbooks and other supplies they would get free at school. And you still have to pay taxes.

</fact=true>
 
Axion said:
As far as I can remember, since the inception of this nation there have been very few duty's made of the citizens of this nation but serving in the military in times of a draft, jury duty and paying taxes have ALWAYS been the dutys on an american citizen.

Allow me to clarify....

That "duty" you speak of implying the "duty" to pay taxes on citizens, is a "voluntary compliance" tax.

The reason for that?

So that citizens may withhold the lifeline of government (funding) for petition of redress of grievance, until addressed and rectified.

That rights has been removed, based on the perception of a law that does not exist, due to misinformation in the educational system of this nation, and egregiously outrageous precedents set by a bi-partisan controlled government in all three branches.(effectively rendering "checks and balances" useless.)

157 years of bi-partisan scham, and further removal of peoples interaction with government and lawmaking.
 
Osborn brings up some very valid points. His listing of freedom infractions are just that and I really believe that no rational individual who truly believes that freedom supersedes govt rule can justify ANY OF THOSE FREEDOM INFRACTIONS WHATSOEVER. Unfortunately, if all those infractions were to be eliminated, the end result would be classical anarchy. The pending question now remains: If we know the cause (the existence of a ruling class, elected or not) then the only logical cure would be the elimination of that ruling class? Hmmm...quite a dillemma isn`t it.




Curiosity yields evolution...satiety yields extinction.
 
Osborn brings up some very valid points. His listing of freedom infractions are just that and I really believe that no rational individual who truly believes that freedom supersedes govt rule can justify ANY OF THOSE FREEDOM INFRACTIONS WHATSOEVER. Unfortunately, if all those infractions were to be eliminated, the end result would be classical anarchy. The pending question now remains: If we know the cause (the existence of a ruling class, elected or not) then the only logical cure would be the elimination of that ruling class? Hmmm...quite a dillemma isn`t it.

I am of the opinion that "anarchy" doesn't exist for long. People band together for mutual protection against the predators, establishing their own form of government. I found an interesting form of government that I think describes what has happened to America very well.

kleptocracy
�*
Main Entry: klep·toc·ra·cy
Pronunciation: klep-'tä-kr&-sE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -cies
: government by those who seek chiefly status and personal gain at the expense of the governed; also : a particular government of this kind
- klep·to·crat /'klep-t&-"krat/ noun
- klep·to·crat·ic /"klep-t&-'kra-tik/ adjective

badbob
 
And as having a strong educational system is so critical to the success of the next generation and the u.s. remaking a super power in the world I don't think any one has any business complaining about paying education taxes even if they don't have kids of their own.
Which is exactly why Engels and Marx added this as their tenth plank.
 
We are over burdened with legalism. The result is the death of common sense and personal responsiblity. I believe that every law passed should have a sunset date of 10 years, If it is truely needed law then they repass it when it sunsets. This would prevent many laws from being used wrongfully. Example in N.C. they have a lottery but it is still a crime to posses a lottery ticket. With federal, state, and local laws the gov'ts now control every thing you do,think or say. This is against the ideas of the founding fathers, it is exactly what they did not want for this country. The quote" education system" unquote, the more the federal gov't has been involved the worse it has gotten. It no longer is to teach reading, writting, math, history now it is to teach diversity, tolerance and P.C. ideals. Ask the children about the Bill of Rights, or the Consistution you will be a shamed of thier answers. Test one on math and see how poorly they do without a calulator. Our taxes are used to finance these failures, when you compare private schools vs. public schools cost per student you see there is something wrong. A private school spends half to 3/4th of what public schools do with much better results.
 
I am of the opinion that "anarchy" doesn't exist for long. People band together for mutual protection against the predators, establishing their own form of government. I found an interesting form of government that I think describes what has happened to America very well.

As a result, the cycle of oppression vs liberty repeats...and repeats...and repeats...etc...The innate human desire for freedom and security is ever prevalent. The happy medium can NEVER be achieved :confused:.

We are over burdened with legalism. The result is the death of common sense and personal responsiblity.

I do not believe that common sense and personal responsibility are dead and buried. They just remain elusive to those who wish not to exercise independent thought and rashness of judgement. Most people, by nature, are very selfish and narrow-minded. They choose not to see various issues from other viewpoints. As a result, the only freedom that they care about is their own. However, when their liberties are challenged, who will be around to stand by them. This is a very serious flaw in the human psyche which will, undoubtedly, reinforce the cyclicity of my above statement.




Curiosity yields evolution...satiety yields extinction.
 
cant barbecue

We have an African American in town that is one of those self made successful businessmen that has been running a successful business for over 15 years. He makes a good product that every one loves and he is admired as being a good man with interest in the community.
Then this week came along.
The Fort Wayne City Nazi scum told him that he can only barbecue for only 15 days a month because he makes too much smoke.
This is not an oil fire. This is not a garbage fire.
This is the smoke that comes off his gas grill from barbecuing ribs.
Now you might think that many people are complaining about all the smoke, but all the neighbors are only business and any one in the aria only says one thing.
The smoke makes them HUNGRY.
This is not a large cafeteria that seats hundreds of people.
This is not a major corporate company making thousand of pounds a day.
This is an old beat up pizza carryout that he bought and fixed up that’s clean and neat.
Well in the City of Fort Wayne Indiana this has now become a crime and he has been threatened with fines and closer.
For too much SMOKE.
Keep wondering when the mayor will start wearing a Hitler mustache.
On the 20th of this month he had to stop selling ribs.
Most people will say, “His was only a small business, it won’t be a great loss if he has to close, I live across town and have never been there, although I have heard he makes great ribs.”
I actually heard that yesterday.
Well I have met him and he not only makes great ribs but he is a nice man to know and talk to.
Yea his is only a small business and no great loss to the city.
But what about his family and all the families that make an income from his business.
Well there is always McDonalds down the street, don’t they still sell those McRibs?
Let’s tare his business down and build another McDonalds.
Oh by the way, that means that you as a home owner can expect the smoke police to watch how much smoke you make in your back yard when you cook those hamburgers.
So why don’t you throw away all those grills and go to some fast food crap joint and improve your community.
 
TheFacts, I would say there is no such thing as a happy medium because no two people could agree on it anyway.

All you want is the ball rolling back and forth between anarchy at one end and police state(stagnation) at the other without getting too close to either. Rocking back and forth is the key to survival for any species.We need to get the ball going back the other way in western countries I think. A heavily policed state has a very weak culture and historically invasion/incursion by a newer more powerful culture is a more immediate danger than being enslaved by your own goverment. Maybe that is already beginning..
 
You are correct; there is a fine balance between a police state and anarchy. There is always a need for authority in some form, but the trick is keeping that authority in check.

Our system has been perverted by self-serving politicians and greedy lawyers. The people have allowed this to happed by becoming complacent and voting for handouts. . . . . . the downfall of all democratic-type societies has historically been the greed of the people. It becomes "what do I get out of the deal" and not "what can I do to be sure that this lifestyle exists for future generations." The politicians know this, and their ticket to office is, for the most part, offering goodies to the people in exchange for votes.

If we were serious about upholding Constitutional values in the eyes of the Founders there would have been several revolutions already. The problem that exists now is that the politicians and their cronies have insulated themselves from the general public; doing the wrong thing does not look so bad when there is something in it for you and there is little or no fear of reprisal. Anyone tried just getting their "representative" on the phone personally? I think you will find that it is nearly impossible to get the 99% of the ruling elite to even speak with us commoners on the telephone for two minutes.

I see that others have posed the "what to do" question; unfortunately there is no easy answer.

Revolution? Would that be feasible in today's society? Seems that anyone involved in that sort of movement would likely be arrested prior to any action, and if action was attainable they would be fighting against fellow Americans (police, Guard).

Military coup? That would probably have some affect, but you'd better trust your military with your life. All it takes is a few bad officers in high places to create a tyranny in a hot second; that tyrrany would be worse than the one we already live under.

I have put much thought into this issue, and it seems to me that the best course of action is through the states. Montana just took a first step towards giving the Federal government the finger with their assembly bills ( http://www.bozemandailychronicle.com/articles/2005/02/15/news/anti.txt ) and I'm sure there is more of the same sentiment in many states.

I wonder what the Federal government would do when 20 different states stood up and declared "no more?" I hardly think they would begin a civil war, but then again I may be wrong. As well, even the threat of a civil war would likely be sufficient to create some changes.

Local and regional representatives are much more accessible that the ruling elite of Washington, and many of them are likely either tired of the game or could be swayed with sufficient numbers of the citizenry knocking at their door.

This appears to be the best course of action in my opinion. The states were to be the source of power anyway, why not push as many states as possible into flexing that muscle. I wonder what the Feds would do with uncooperative states on their hands and a dwindling revenue flow. The loss of revenue would likely get their attention more than anything else; and the states have this capability.

Something like "businesses shall collect no Federal income tax and citizens of our state shall pay no taxes to the federal government." The states could offer protection to businesses and citizens alike when operating within the borders of that particular state. I'm sure there would be many consequences that cannot adequately be foreseen and it would not work with only an couple of states doing it, but it's a more attractive and realistic option than an all-out revolution or a coup.

Any comments?
 
The Facts said:
Unfortunately, if all those infractions were to be eliminated, the end result would be classical anarchy.

How would simply focusing on the rights of the individual being enforced in law, equate to anarchy? :rolleyes:

I am calling for the re-installation of Constitutional Limitations by the people, not for anarchy.

Our justice system under the Constitution, in protection of rights, is FAR from anarchy. :eek:
 
LAK supply said:
I wonder what the Federal government would do when 20 different states stood up and declared "no more?" I hardly think they would begin a civil war, but then again I may be wrong. As well, even the threat of a civil war would likely be sufficient to create some changes.

Local and regional representatives are much more accessible that the ruling elite of Washington, and many of them are likely either tired of the game or could be swayed with sufficient numbers of the citizenry knocking at their door.

I agree, and I think this is the most feasible first step.

This first step would be compounded X10 if the LEO's lead the march to knock on those doors in front of armies of angry, unarmed (except for pen and petition) citizens demanding REPRESENTATION.

I have much faith in that idea when I see LEO's like the ones who formed LEAP, P&MANWO.


P&MANWO:
http://www.patriotamerica.com/JackMcLamb/index.htm

LEAP:
http://leap.cc/
 
I would say there is no such thing as a happy medium because no two people could agree on it anyway.

All you want is the ball rolling back and forth between anarchy at one end and police state(stagnation) at the other without getting too close to either. Rocking back and forth is the key to survival for any species.We need to get the ball going back the other way in western countries I think. A heavily policed state has a very weak culture and historically invasion/incursion by a newer more powerful culture is a more immediate danger than being enslaved by your own goverment. Maybe that is already beginning..

I couldn`t agree more. Unfortunately, this ball is cyclic and the trend IS to find that medium, whatever it may be. Our culture rooted in moral and ethical mores is our society`s guide. However, since mores change over time, so does our concept of liberty and opression. 100 yrs ago, there was no such thing as federal income tax...now what...explain that to the Founding Fathers.
The key is certainly not to get close to any particular side but when that fulcrum point is reached, it becomes analogous to balancing a spinning top on the end of your finger.

How would simply focusing on the rights of the individual being enforced in law, equate to anarchy?

I am calling for the re-installation of Constitutional Limitations by the people, not for anarchy.

Our justice system under the Constitution, in protection of rights, is FAR from anarchy

Anarchy, like oppression, is in the eye of the beholder. People, in general, have differing views on what constitutes a "free" society. Your view is rooted in what the Founding Fathers envisioned for America. However, times (and mores) have changed. Now, as an example, Gay and abortion rights supersede eminient domain and no quartering of troops (nobody cares about the 3rd amendment anyway) rights. You present a very sound arguement in your infraction examples, but this is the 21st century, and many of the rights you want restored have been declared by the Fed. Govt and the majority of the American People obsolete...until they become "in fashion" again.



Curiosity yields evolution...satiety yields extinction.
 
Back
Top