You and me making the rest of us look bad?

O

Oleg Volk

Staff Alumnus
This is derived from discussions of EAA Corp. adertising in the Pistolcraft forum...

Where would you draw the line between being sensitive to others' views and not backing off your own views? In that other forum, some people thought that sexist advertising is pert of life and mostly harmless or even effective, others thought it turned people away from our camp.

We have brought up many subjects where some people wanted to use whatever terms they liked, esp. if those terms made good sound bytes -- and ,when advised to moderate their language, got upset and charged others with caving in to political correctness.

So, just how important/not is the issue? When a question is asked and we use metaphores and hyperboles to answer, does it make for more interesting communication or merely unclear?

I am not articulating the question well, maybe someone can re-state it better...

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Oleg "cornered rat" Volk (JPFO,NRA)

http://dd-b.net/RKBA
 
I don't flame, even when I want to.

I try to avoid words and phrases that might upset others' sensibilities, on the basis that these words and phrases generally aren't needed to make a point.

This is all separate and distinct from "What I believe", as to religion and politics and suchlike. However, just because I have a strong opinion doesn't mean I can't be polite as to how I express it.

And there are some threads on some forums where my own opinion is just not needed. I may HAVE a strong opinion, but so what? I don't feel I have any mission in life to get in on threads and re-educate the world at large. :)

Since folks on the Net can't read your body language, nor see your expression, it's easy to be misunderstood. That's why reviewing and editing before posting is so important.

I guess that "When in doubt, don't!" works well in Net discussions as well as out on the street...

Regards, Art
 
I am of the opinion that it is impossible to please all people all the time.
We are here as part of a voluntary population with similar, not necessarily the SAME interests.
As an adult, I am entitled to do what I pretty well please, and I try my hardest to not ruffle feathers. In the same vein, sometimes it is necessary to heat things up, not only in theinterest of opinion, but in the interest of keeping interest.
I really enjoy the opportunity to discuss with you folks, in my p.c or non-p.c. way, the products, services, and general stuff that helps bond us together in this forum.
I don't like to tell my kids to shut up. I would prefer to tell them to be quiet.
Sometimes "be quiet" is not enough to make the point. Then "SHUT UP" is what I use to get the point across.
I guess what I am trying to say is, if we were all the same, we would be a bunch of bored persons, and would probably be at each others throats all the time.
In regards to ,say for example, the "Guns and Babes" thread of late, I can and do occasionally take a peek or more at the porno sites that abound on the web. It is my right to do so, just as it is my right to own and carry firearms, which I also happen to do.
Am I a morally wrong person for this? I don't think so, but if someone else thinks so, I don't mind. Just don't take my right to do so away 'cause you don't like what I do.
That is why I don't make a big deal about the anti's. Do I buy stuff from some obviously anti companies? I try not to, but I don't have time to research all that stuff.
I believe they have their opinion, and as long as I can fight their cause with my cause, maybe someday a balance can be struck.(flames expected) I consider most anti's to be hypocrites, but to the few that stick to their beliefs, great for them. I stick to mine.
But when it comes to my rights, they should have no say so.
This got kinda off subject, but I hope I shed some light on what THIS forum member thinks about and tries to convey during our interaction here.
Sorry so long! Steve

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Knock twice. Rap with your cane. Feels nice. You're out of the rain. We got your skinny girls. Here at the Western World
from Steely Dan's "Western World"
 
I think Art hit the nail on the head. I have read many of his posts and he exhibits great behavior on the board. I have to admit, I have been known to ruffle a feather or two, but I am trying to tone it down. I have always been rather straight forward and I am sometimes misinterpreted as abrasive.

The anonomity of the Net makes it easy to spout off without accountability. This isn't intended to flame, but I have noticed that people who use their real names and the e-mail account through their ISP (real identity is known) tend to have a bit more credibility, as do folks who have links to their Web sites. You know, guys like Randy Garret, Keith Rogan, Gale McMillan, and so on.

There are times I will not compromise and back away from my own views. You know, areas like moral and ethical belief systems, etc. I choose not to discuss those on-line.
 
Oleg,

I think it's a fine line. One common tool, is to ask what a reasonable person would do in any certain circumstance. Rich has done a fine job of keeping the high ground, and I do believe that, even if one disagrees, one can maintain a polite tone. I also feel that a resounding Hell, no! may be called for at times. I suppose the trick is, knowing when those times are.

:)
John
 
in one of those articles on "how to win office politics" there was some advice on proper phrasing of opposing views.

bad: "You are wrong, method A is unequivocally better than B."
good: "In my experience, method A has been better than B."

then there's me: "Only an inbred halfwit could possibly think that B was even close to A." :( I am fundamentally lacking in statesmanship, and do not suffer fools gladly.

the thing about courtesy is that it is a peak surrounded by slippery slopes on all sides. we rarely start off at the apex, and all it takes is one person to start downhill to drag everyone else down the mudslide. most subjects, particularly those of a technical bent, do not demand use of the flamethrower, but there are some that justify immediate, vigorous response. my hot buttons are anti-Semitism, separation of church and state, the 10th Amendment, and the all-too-pervasive anti-education prejudices encountered in American society.
 
I, for one, have had all the P.C. horsecrap I can stand. I don't mince my words any more, Fork'em. ;)
 
EAA - they're the folks who feel compelled to use scantily clad buxom "babes" in their advertising, right? (I sit here at work without a gun rag to reference.) I'm pretty non-PC, but I find the ad's somewhat sexist, condescending, and at the very least downright silly. Which is a shame, 'cause by all accounts, they produce a decent product. I'd have to opine this is exactly the sort of thing anti's love to use to further their image of us as a bunch of knuckle-dragging neanderthals who think (when we think at all) with our 'nads.

Ivanhoe -

Re: Office politics - as a general rule, people will accept your ideas much more readily if you tell them Benjamin Franklin thought of it first.

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"...and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
Luke 22:36
"An armed society is a polite society."
Robert Heinlein
 
Oleg...

I believe that gun owners, in an attempt to construct their own "political correctness", have become their own worst enemies.

We need to throw the dead dog on the table and let everyone take a big sniff. We cannot candy coat the truth. We cannot disguise the facts or try to put a pretty dress on them. The facts need to be laid out in an intellectually strategic manner in order to expose our opponents lies, deception, fabrications, and most importantly, their ultimate agenda. We need to show that our opponents religiously believe that their intended end justifies their means, and will go to great lengths to reach their objective end. We need to show our fellow Americans (regardless of their political persuasion), that this attack on "their" 2nd Amendment will have a direct affect on every one of their other freedoms, and illustrate why. We need to make this an issue that hits home hard...its about freedom, and its very survival as we know it.

To date, gun owners have been on the defense with everything to lose, having opponents whom have everything to gain and nothing to lose. You don't win a war by defense, but by attack. We cannot sit idly by while their strategy and use of the major media sources pounds our side silly. We need to attack.

There are no dangerous weapons, there are only dangerous men.
 
I agree with Paul. One should be clear on one's support of the RKBA. I abhor the sporting argument. I think the tool analogy is cowardly.

However, gun folks who propose that the RKBA is correlated with racism and homophobia see the worst in the gun world and it hurts us.

It is not hard to avoid excesses. When Heston makes a joke about coming out of the closet that hurts us. Periodically someone laces into Jews because Fienstein and Schummer are
of that faith. Hurts us.

I've seen some clearly anti-Black things at the gun show.

EAA is a mixed case. It is not totally offensive but I would argue against it just for good taste. Have a classy women dressed in country clothes or something professional.
 
TFL members have done an admirable job of self-moderation on those topics lately. I would be embarrassed to point my friends to some other boards, though (Bower's comes to mind, and Ar15 lately). Hell, I have laid off bashing LEOs because that hurts us AND because I have re-evaluated my views. Hope others can leave the ill-defined caategory of "liberals" alone as I know it turned off some allies.

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Oleg "cornered rat" Volk (JPFO,NRA)

http://dd-b.net/RKBA
 
Paul Revere: I agree, but I think that if the right words are used, they don't even realize the dog is long-dead.

Personally, I like to ask questions in a reasonable, mild manner. I phrase them so the anti-gun type, somewhere down the line, either has to contradict all his previous "Yes, of course." answers--and feel foolish--or figure out for himself what reality really is.

Sometimes it even works. And with some, nothing will ever work... :(

Closet? I never been in no steenkin' closet!

Regards, Art
 
And there is a way to influence people without even talking to them. I decided years ago that I would buy my gun and hunting magazines, guns, ammo, etc. on the way home from work, a lunch date or a visit with my parents -- not on the way home from three days in a duck blind. I have found that if I am relatively clean and not wearing camo people at the large chain stores will even smile and speak when I'm holding something gun-related. John
 
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