Yet another example of why "Ballistic fingerprinting" won't work.

C

Crosshair

New member
I was at the range today. Being the brass monkey I am, I was going around picking up every useable piece of brass I could find. I shake the trash cans to see if anyone threw some brass in the trash can. On one I hit pay dirt and find two boxes full of brass. I think, "Wow, someone picked up after themselves and saved me the work." I see that there are some aluminum cases, but I can sort those out at home. It is mostly 40 S&W brass. I then look at the shipping label and start to laugh. I instantly thought about "Ballistic fingerprinting" (Junk science as it may be.:barf: ) and just had to share these photos.

Anyone can use range pickup brass to fool "ballistic fingerprinting". However if you really want to screw with the system, use use brass from guns owned by the F.B.I!!!!!!!!!!

The first box:
FBI_Boxlabel1.jpg


The second box:
FBI_Boxlabel2.jpg


Inside one of the boxes:
FBI_Brass_Boxinside.jpg


I can just see this going over well in the TV world, where this stuff actualy works. (Unlike the real world where it doesn't.) Imagine the CSI episode.:D

Tech: Well, we have narrowed down the list of possible suspects to 43 members of the Miami FBI, 25 other legaly owned guns, and 4 guns that were reported stolen.​

I have no idea why, but I think this is hilarious.
 
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OK, a few casings from reloads left at a crime scene would make a few agents uncomfortable. After their guns are taken away but new crimes involving brass from their guns are committed they'll figure it out. At least, I hope they figure it out...
 
wait a minute?

doesn't ballistic finger printing involve the marks on the actual bullet and not the brass case and also the mark the firing pin makes which is also replaced when reloading?
 
doesn't ballistic finger printing involve the marks on the actual bullet and not the brass case and also the mark the firing pin makes which is also replaced when reloading?
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Indeed, however even in those cases ballistic fingerprinting is inaccurate and almost as useful as a polygraph (read: virtually nil). Some judges still accept both are valid evidence. :rolleyes: This is what you get from a society that eschews science and relies on truthiness instead.
 
Ballistic fingerprinting, such as it is, uses both bullets to barrel matching and cartridge to chamber / breech etc marking.

It is the later type that explains the fired brass packed with handguns that create confusion in 48 states and are required in Maryland and New York, I believe.

This is reasonably accurate.

The idea of gathering up a pile of brass from a LEO range to sprinkle gaily about has been humorously floated before and is intended only to illustrate the folly of the system. Assuming the firearm has been removed from the scene, the scene was in NY or MD and the bullet was of a type correct for the brass, hilarity might ensue.

The absence of a brass case also gives the VPC the vapors. Old, but still amusing.

In an old Perry Mason episode, a weakness of bullet striation to barrel matching was illustrated when our hero, Perry, disassembles 2 1911 type handguns and swaps the barrels in front of the astounded judge and jury.

Somehow, that which was common knowledge in 1950s TV shows has escaped the notice of many in the several legislatures.

it is funny to me how many people post on here about topics they know nothing about!
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Actually, he nailed it. Probably didn't have time for the whole dog and pony show but since I'm at lunch - what the hey. Enjoy.
 
the ballisitc fingerprinting is just tool marks left on the case by the firearm.
maryland (and whomever else is using it) demands that a fired case be supplied for each gun.
There will be marks from extractors, ejectors, the firing pin, and even the breech face left on the case.
If there are any burrs in the gun on the magazine, chamber mouth, atc, they may leave a tool mark also.
It might work if legal gun owners actually commited any crimes...
 
You guys need to read up a little.

Ballistic fingerprinting matches up the firing pin strike imprints on primers or marks on recovered bullets. They do this by using a comparison (side by side) microscope. The one you see on forensic files and similar shows. It has nothing to do with empty brass (no primer and no bullet). This would tell someone absolutely nothing!
 
Ballistic fingerprinting, a sub-category of firearms examination, is a forensic method that is intended to help find the gun that was used in a crime by matching the bullet's striations (or striae) with the rifled barrel through which it was fired, or by matching marks on the cartridge case to marks in the chamber and breech. The technique is part of the science of forensic ballistics, and it is an application of toolmark identification. The term ballistic fingerprinting, a comparison to the use of fingerprints in forensics, is more commonly encountered by the public.
Bold mine - from previous Wikipedia link.

It's not just theory, MD and NY collect fired brass - thus far with conspicuous lack of results.
"Chamber and breech" encompasses more than a firing pin strike.




Perhaps we should all read up a little?
 
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The 'ballistic fingerprinting' method that is most often mentioned in the papers (and is done by a few states) uses just cases, not bullets.
The case is pretty easy to obtain for a manufacturer, just fire the gun and collect.
A bullet needs a capture tank to t

I have never heard rifling matching called 'ballistic fingerprinting', but obviously Wiki has someone who thinks so.

A case is easy to get, a bullet requires a capture tank to to stop the bullet without undue damage.
 
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