Wylde chambered 223 observations

W

wtfTG

New member
NEWBIE COMMENT!! Sorry if this is redundant...

I have a 20" bull barrel Wylde chambered 223 semi-auto and started reloading a few months ago. At first I was pretty sheepish about my loads and was getting FTE/FTC problems, because I was loading a manufacturer's lower end of recommended loads. I was afraid of blowing myself up....

One of the generous contributors here mentioned that the Wylde chamber accommodates higher loads than usual chambers. So I started loading at or near max load recommendation and saw a huge improvement in accuracy up to 300 yards (I haven't gone beyond 300 yet). All rounds show a consistent ejection pattern and there are no signs of excessive pressure on the cases or primers.

So if you have a similar setup, don't waste your time like me on the lower end of the load spectrum.

Most of my loads are now with Varget as it appears to be most consistent in my semi-auto. I have been test driving a bunch of 50-55 gr and 69-75 gr bullets. I went out today testing Berger 75 gr VLD, Nosler 69 gr custom competition, and Sierre 77 gr MK, all at max recommended load for Varget. Remarkable accuracy out to 300 yards.

I post this, because I spent a huge amount of time, effort, and money reloading at a lower level than my chamber allowed. So just trying to help any other newbies along, thanks to the generous comments of reloaders and shooters here. Thanks again!!!

Thoughts and comments always welcome.
 
What twist rate is your barrel?


I just built a 16" .223 Wilde with a 1 in 9" twist. Haven't put any reloads through it yet, just some russian 55 and 62 grain for function testing.

With cheap Chinese knock-off flip up irons, it was minute of soda can at 25ish yards, shooting offhand, but I haven't had a chance to really shoot it for groups yet.
 
To the OP, I'm assuming you worked up to those max loads....if not, then you really needed to.

I see they've worked out, but you got lucky that they weren't over pressure this time.

Just wanted to pass on that its not a safe practice to go directly from low end, to max charge. That's a good way to end up in trouble.

Sounds like you find a good load though.
 
All loads were worked up from min-max loads. Having talked to several other more experienced reloaders, they have started in the middle and worked up with Wylde chambers. Always looking for signs of excessive pressure.
 
Still not a good practice. It used to be OK, but for the reason that bullet designs are much more varied than they once were, the effect of the chamber can be less significant to some than to others. Also, you see some load data where a starting load exceeds the maximum for some other data, which can confuse the issue. Besides, you only need to run six rounds to get initial evidence of a pressure problem. Unlike working up accuracy loads, it is safe to check pressure in load increments that are 2% of the maximum powder charge. So, you load one each as max -10%, -8%, -6%, -4%, -2%, and -0%. Fire them in that order, checking each for possible pressure signs. If there are none, your gun is comfortable with your data range. If you see a pressure sign, stop and back down 5% from that point, and then start the more careful and time consuming workup from that point. Be aware that some individual cases or brands of primers can give you pressure signs when others dol not.

Another thing you can do is use a chronograph to check that the velocity goes up about the same amount with each load increment, allowing for normal shot to shot variance to be superimposed on that. If velocity fails to increase with a charge increment or actually goes down with a charge increase, that's a pressure sign and you should back off that load some.
 
wtfTG.... remember not all barrels are exactly like yours.

I understand your comments.... but will say....

If your barrel had a very short throat and no freebore.... your results would be VERY different.

By chance did you measure the throat or freebore on your barrel ?

I'd bet it is on the generous side, ( most are ) , but if someone had a barrel with no throat / freebore and a short leade.... the bullet even at a low charge weight ( starting load ) is gonna build pressure faster then the long throat.

Add to that the bullets construction.... if it was a solid copper bullet and a short throat ... you are gonna show pressure signs even faster yet.

Weatherby rifles run a bunch of freebore.

So remember ..... the advice for starting low and working your way up is Very sound advice, especially if you don't know anything about your rifle's barrel and chamber..... on the other hand, after you have spent a decent amount of time loading for that specific barrel.... you can see its trend.

The statement about start low and work up ... is meant for everyone.... because of the numerous differences in barrels, chambers, bullets, headspace....
 
I've been running a Wylde chamber for about a year, heavy barrel, not full on bull barrel.
I've found it shoots very well with 748 Win, Varget & Benchmark, just haven't got around to the other typical .223 powders...

I did the usual break in, 10 rounds of shoot one & clean,
Then shoot 5 & clean for the first 100 rounds,
By the end of that break in ammo, the barrel was shooting 10 shot groups @ 100 yards I could cover with a dime!
Very impressed.
Nothing like cleaning a well broke in stainless barrel, 4 or 5 patches and done!

1/9" twist doesn't particularly like under 50 grain bullets, and I was wasting ammo with super light varmint bullets.
I shoot mostly 55 & 60 anyway, and it really comes into its own about 55 grains.
My limit is about 600 yards out here on my home range,
62+ grains out to 600, but my standard Hornady 55 Grain Vmax leaves no ground hog alive out to about 500 yards.

If the barrel is stainless, keep a close eye on the throat if you shoot long, heavy bullets, people are reporting throat erosion/uneven throat wear in the stainless barrels with big, heavy bullets.
Personally, if I can hit it with the smaller, lighter, and LESS COSTLY bullets, that's the way I go.

I just got two more of the AR-Stoner .223 Wylde barrels broke in a couple weeks ago for guys I shoot with, and they haven't disappointed so far, both well under MOA before completely broke in, and at $130 each, its a hell of a deal!
They kept trying to buy mine, and I didn't know if mine was an exceptionally accurate fluke or I could reproduce the results,
Looks like the results are reproducible.
 
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"One of the generous contributors here mentioned that the Wylde chamber accommodates higher loads than usual chambers."
I, for one, don't think that is the idea behind the Wylde chamber and seriously doubt the designer has/had that in mind. Personally, I haven't seen much(any) advantage of the Wylde over a snug 5.56 chamber. There may be some improvement over a sloppy 5.56 chamber but I don't have one of those (thankfully) for comparison.
 
The Wydle chamber is a good fit for guys not shooting super light weight bullets the .223 Rem was originally built for,
And not shooting stupid heavy bullets that people think is OK to run through a 5.56 NATO chamber, but not a .223 Rem chamber.

The original purpose of the then 'Wildcat' .223 was super light, super fast (for the time) small varmint bullets.
For accuracy, thin skinned VARMINT bullets, 1/9 is a little fast,
Most if us that shot .223 Rem before the days of the AR craze/fads know 35 or 40 grain was the standard varmint eliminator, particularly for Prarrie Dogs.

Then the military came along and started out at 55 grains in a 1/14" twist,
Found out what varmint shooters knew all along,
55 grain was too heavy,
So in the military tradition of learning everything the hard way,
They made heavier bullets....

Eventually coming around to the conclusion that wildcatters and varmint shooters already knew,
If you want to spin a longer heavier bullet, you have to increase twist rate,
Military barrels went 1/14", then 1/12", then 1/10" then 1/9" eventually ending at 1/6", which over spins everything from 75 grains down.

1/9" will start to come into its own about 55 grains, and will stablize up to about 69 grain bullets pretty well.

Short/Light bullet shooters found (like about everyone else) accuracy goes up when the bullet doesn't have to freebore a train tunnel before it hits rifling.
Some freebore is OK, but the NATO chamber with a short/light bullet a just too much....

Since its an auto loader, I give my bullet ogive right at 0.0025" jump at the rifling,
If it were a bolt gun, I might play with that a little,
But since its an auto loader, and you might have carbon, copper, brass in the chamber from a previous firing, a little jump is recommended for proper chambering...

The Wydle chamber does exactly what it was designed to do,
Tighten up that super sloppy 5.56 chamber and allowing you to shoot medium weight bullets with good accuracy.
The barrel twist rate, at 1/9" works with medium weight bullets, the chamber works with medium weight bullets that are magazine fed (instead of super heavy/long bullets that have to be hand fed),
And about everyone that shoots one likes it.

You can't please everyone all the time, but for the money I'm really happy with the results so far.
Where else but military overrun are you going to get a cryo treated stainless steel match barrel for $130? (while they last)

Yes, I had to adjust the loader, and I had to mark some ammo boxes 'Wydle' for the ammo, but I personally feel its worth it and the Wydle barrel is rapidly becoming my favorite AR...
 
Wylde chamber is the greatest marketing tool ever for people who think .223 and 5.56 are different.
 
Old school light weight .223 Rem & longer/heavier 5.56 NATO CHAMBERS are different.
Brass is the same, seating depth compensates for bullet weight,
Heavier bullets being longer and all, since you can't add mass to a set diameter cylinder without increasing length.

Either you can compress powder, intrude on case volume by setting a heavy bullet deeper in the case to keep the over all length reasonable,
Or you can cut the leade/freebore longer to accomodate the longer/heavier bullet, which is exactly what the 5.56 NATO chamber did.

So, if the Origional 500 yards or so the .223 Rem round would do before dropping to transonic is OK with you, then the Wydle chamber is more of a .223 'Long' for medium weight bullets without stuffing the bullet down in the case.

If you want to shoot a long, heavy bullet 1,000 yards,
Then why not get a .30 caliber rifle capable of that off the shelf instead of stuffing a way too long/heavy bullet in a .223 case and expecting it to do the job of a .30 round?

Its an application thing...
I don't expect my low geared 4 wheel drive Jeep built for pulling power to compete with a new Corvette around a race course, and I don't expect a Corvette to keep up with my Jeep on some mud pit or mountian side...
Some idiot might take a new Corvette and make it 4 wheel drive, but its neither a Jeep or a Corvette anymore.

When you have to hand feed an AR style rifle 99 grain bullets, its not really an AR auto loader anymore, kind of looks like one, but its a hand fed single shot with a rotary bolt...
 
Wow. Lots of intense replies. I originally meant to post that my 1:8 Wylde chambered 20" bull barreled rig works well for near max load. It actually works best at max-5% of most manufacturer's max loads for 50-55 gr bullets. I really just wanted to post my experience.

I worked up from min load manufacturer rec by 0.5 gr until I got a group <1 MOA at 200 yards and then went +/-0.1 gr to figure out the most accurate load for the round. I spend HOURS doing these testings for my rifle and just wanted to post my experience for others' reference.

Thanks for the lively comments.
 
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Everybody here is just looking out for safety, glad you took the proper steps to get there, and glad your results were/are favorable.
It's great fun developing loads for a particular gun, although time consuming, the rewards are great ! Good Luck ! Keep up the good work ! :)
 
I found the same thing, 55-60 grain bullets, three different powders just under published minimums.

Lets hope its not a marketing ploy, I just got two more in,

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