Was searching for some info, and a little help. I am a pure novice on rifle ammo, especially older military ammo. I came across a sealed can of 192 cartridges of .30 cal Ball M2 8 Round Clip Bandoleers recently when removing some old military tool chests that had been left vacant in a horse barn. This can is still sealed and in excellent shape, so I am assuming the ammo is still good as well? Is this safe to be sold to someone, or is it's value more for the collector. Not sure of the age, has a lot# of LC39450. any info would be much appreciated! Thank you in advance!
Wwii sealed ammo .30-06
- Thread starter PIRATE76
- Start date
Bamashooter
New member
I would guess lake city ammo. 8rd. chargers is M1 Garand clips. I would look at it. If it doesnt look corroded then it should fire. I have some mosin nagant ammo from 1955 that looks brand new and actually shoots very well so you never know.
robmkivseries70
New member
Be aware that this is very likely to be corrosive ammo and clean your rifle accordingly.
Best,
Rob
Best,
Rob
From what I had read on the internet, which is a repeat of what is said in gun magazines, powder has an “indefinite” shelf life. Remember reading statements to the effect that powder lost energy as it got old, making it essentially benign.
Then I ran into an Insensitive Munitions expert. This IM expert explained that powder deteriorates from the day it leaves the factory. Turns out what I "heard" was incorrect or half truths.
Nitrocellulose decomposes through the reduction-oxidation process. Called Redox. The molecular stability of the functional groups on the organic chain determine the life time of the nitrocellulose molecule. All ionic compounds, water is the main offender because it is always in air, react with those bonds and accelerates the deterioration of the powder.
Heat accelerates the deterioration/decomposition of powder and the rate is directly proportional to the Arrhenius equation. If you read in the Insensitive munitions literature, you will see that they use high temperature to accelerate aging of smokeless propellants
The bottom line is that nitrocellulose is a high energy molecule that wants to become a low energy molecule.
The Armed Forces have stockpile surveillance programs but each Service does theirs differently. The Navy samples its powders and propellants. If the powder is outgassing nitric gas (as determined by a paper that changes color (Methly Violet test, or Talliani test)), the stuff is tested to see how much stabilizer is left. If the amount is less than or equal to 20%, the lot is scrapped.
The Army does it different. The Army scraps small arms powders by time. Double based powders and ammunition are scrapped at 20 years, single based 45 years.
The best storage condition for powders is arctic. Cold and dry.
Due to the migration of NG within double based powders, the surface of the grain will become rich in NG even though the total energy content of the propellant has decreased. This will cause changes in the burn rate, and can cause pressures to spike. The surface of nitrocellulose powders also change as the powder deteriorates, and it changes unevenly. This creates conditions for erratic burn rates. Burn rate instability is undesirable and can cause explosive conditions in firearms. It is an extremely rare occurrence, but old ammunition has caused rifle Kabooms.
I believe this is one:
Garand Blowup with old US ammunition.
http://www.socnet.com/showthread.php?p=1344088
Then I ran into an Insensitive Munitions expert. This IM expert explained that powder deteriorates from the day it leaves the factory. Turns out what I "heard" was incorrect or half truths.
Nitrocellulose decomposes through the reduction-oxidation process. Called Redox. The molecular stability of the functional groups on the organic chain determine the life time of the nitrocellulose molecule. All ionic compounds, water is the main offender because it is always in air, react with those bonds and accelerates the deterioration of the powder.
Heat accelerates the deterioration/decomposition of powder and the rate is directly proportional to the Arrhenius equation. If you read in the Insensitive munitions literature, you will see that they use high temperature to accelerate aging of smokeless propellants
The bottom line is that nitrocellulose is a high energy molecule that wants to become a low energy molecule.
The Armed Forces have stockpile surveillance programs but each Service does theirs differently. The Navy samples its powders and propellants. If the powder is outgassing nitric gas (as determined by a paper that changes color (Methly Violet test, or Talliani test)), the stuff is tested to see how much stabilizer is left. If the amount is less than or equal to 20%, the lot is scrapped.
The Army does it different. The Army scraps small arms powders by time. Double based powders and ammunition are scrapped at 20 years, single based 45 years.
The best storage condition for powders is arctic. Cold and dry.
Due to the migration of NG within double based powders, the surface of the grain will become rich in NG even though the total energy content of the propellant has decreased. This will cause changes in the burn rate, and can cause pressures to spike. The surface of nitrocellulose powders also change as the powder deteriorates, and it changes unevenly. This creates conditions for erratic burn rates. Burn rate instability is undesirable and can cause explosive conditions in firearms. It is an extremely rare occurrence, but old ammunition has caused rifle Kabooms.
I believe this is one:
Garand Blowup with old US ammunition.
http://www.socnet.com/showthread.php?p=1344088
. Rifleman1776
New member
Too bad you cooked it off. I would have pulled the bullets. Used the powder for garden fertilizer and reloaded.
Thats for sure on burning the stuff. The cases could have been put to use. My guess is there was another issue there too as the general idea is old powder tends to lose its power not have more umpth. When it degrades it tends degrede on the the power level also. But thats only from lab tests and not in the feild stuff.