Wrinkling 38 special???

C

Chainsaw.

New member
Fiiiiinally got the 586 Ive been after for a good while, loaded up some 357 for it with great success, but now Im loading 38special and getting some weird results. One head stamp in particular "WW" is wrinkling when I seat bullets, some so bad they look like they've spent the last 64 years on the beach in florida with no sun screen. 98% of this issue is with this one head stamp, Id ditch em but they make up 1/3-1/4 of my 38 brass collection.

This is with a 125 grain lee cast & coated bullet. Ive tried sizing the bullet, lubing the bullet going into the case, lubing the case inti the seating die, backing the crimp waaay off to where it pretty much almost doesnt touch the case. Are these cases a lost cause? Whats your experience? Help?
 
I've loaded bunches n bunches of 38 Special over the last 3+ decades. I've never run into such a problem. I've used WW headstamped brass too - mostly nickel plated; not that it would make much difference.

Pictures might be helpful.

I'm also curious how much you're flairing the case.

I'm not a fan of coated bullets because (among other reasons) they tend to "shave" upon seating - regardless of the amount of flair. And I always seat and crimp in separate operations (progressive). This shaving I've experience may be somewhat related to what you're experiencing - although certainly not as extreme. ?? Just a guess.
 
I had a recent issue where 38 specials were wrinkling but with 3 or 4 different brand cases. Had loaded them before with no issues but all of a sudden this started happening. I ended up opening the flair more and it finally stopped.
 
Some W-W cases have a cannelure and I recall that wrinkling, or collapsing, can happen during bullet seating if the bullet seats within that area. In a fairly recent post it was pointed out that some cases, don't recall which, have a step that stops the bullet seating at a certain depth. Trying to seat beyond the step could result in a collapsed case.
 
I had a recent issue where 38 specials were wrinkling but with 3 or 4 different brand cases. Had loaded them before with no issues but all of a sudden this started happening. I ended up opening the flair more and it finally stopped.
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WW, that WW is one of my favorite brand of cases, The only time I have wrinkled a case is when seating a bullet. The seating die does not have case body support so when a reloader messes up the case can wad up beneath the bullet when seating.

When trying to move the shoulder back on a bottle neck case (like all other reloaders ) I found it was impossible to do with a die that had case body support. SO:eek: I configured a die to push the shoulder back without case body support; guess what? I move the shoulder back as in I shortend the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head but:confused: there was a problem; withoug case body support the body of the case was turned in to an accordion or a case with bellows.

F. Guffey
 
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After fifty years of loading the 357 and 38spl I've had a few, very few, cases do what you describe. It's from lack or flairing the case mouth enough. I've used mostly WW brass over the year and never had any problem with it. I'd suggest ditching the coated bullets as well. I've tried them and I've never gotten great accuracy out of them. As stated above, they tend to shave upon seating and if you measure the diameter at the base of the bullet they are either undersized or have a lot of variation. I don't know why that is, but I do know it effects accuracy.
 
Nick, Id have pics up but its such a pain with this site. Ill try backing out the crimp all the way to see if that helps.

Only flaring enough to get the bullets started. You are right in that coated bullets can get a little shavey but Im having decent success up to this point, especially in 44 and 357.

About the canelure, these do have it but its half way down the case, no where near where the base of the bullet stops. Shouldn't be an issue short of weakening the case wall in the effect of that downward pressure of seating.
 
Only flaring enough to get the bullets started.
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Yeah, that's the conventional wisdom when it comes to flaring cases.

I however, do not subscribe to it. I flair generously. I'm too old to fight with seating bullets atop the case mouth. If I can't drop them onto the mouth with ease, then I don't have enough flair. (The bullet will sit about 1/32nd-ish into the mouth, with a noticeable gap between the mouth and the bullet.) After doing this for the last half-decade (and I load/shoot a lot), the concern of overworking the brass seems to be unfounded.

Just the way one guy does it. (Does not apply to rifle cartridges.)

I don't know if flaring more will solve your problem, but I believe it's worth a try.
 
I've wrinkled a couple of cases before.

I always figured it was due to sloppy seating of the bullet. The bullet should slip into the case. If the bullet is not aligned correctly you are smashing the bullet into the case. Sometimes when smashing the bullet into the case the case fights back and gets wrinkled in the process.

Excessive crimping can cause this also. A moderate crimp into the crimp groove won't hurt anything but if you try and jam the lip of the case past the cannelure or crimp goove it can put to much pressure on the case and cause some distortion.
 
My guess(es) would be:

1. You're not flaring enough.
2. You're crimping while seating.

Solutions:
0. Don't do that.
1. You need at least twenty pieces of flare.
2. Crimp separately.
 
Nick. Hmm.....might be worth a shot....

Reddog. I do try to get bullets as staight as possible into the case as its going up into the die but to no avail. And I am crimping onto a bullet with no canelure, maybe an issue. We'll see if that changes when I get the crimp backed off.

Frank, #1, maybe, but not enough to shave/catch the case edge.
#2 guilty as charged, again Ill try one step at a time.
 
"...Only flaring enough to get the bullets started..." Only enough so the bullet will sit in the case unaided.
Can't imagine how a case head would ever get 'wrinkled'. If you mean the side of the case mouth is getting damaged, that's not enough flare. If it's the case is getting pushed down, the die or the seater plug is not set up correctly.
 
If it's the case is getting pushed down, the die or the seater plug is not set up correctly.
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The seating die does not have case body support; my cases do not have tension, my cases have bullet hold. When it comes to bullet hold I want all the hold I can get, when seating a bullet the bullets acts like an expander, there are times my cases take on the appearance of a snake that swallowed something. The only time that bothers me is when I load 45 ACP rounds for one of my builds. It likes new, over the counter, factory loaded ammo so if my reloades do not look factory loaded it is a bad day at the range.

Even then there is the die that has case body support, I use the full length carbide sizer die to remove the bullet line. I do not full length size the case, I only size enough of the case to make the case look straight.

F. Guffey
 
Chainsaw. said:
Reddog. I do try to get bullets as staight as possible into the case as its going up into the die but to no avail. And I am crimping onto a bullet with no canelure, maybe an issue. We'll see if that changes when I get the crimp backed off.
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What Lee bullet are you loading with no crimp groove? If the bullet has no crimp groove the most you can do remove the flair and get a smidgen of crimp. Any variation in case length can cause issues.
 
20 pieces of flair.
Thank you condor bravo for asking and thank you FrankenMauser for the video and including the 'not suitable for workplace' warning.
 
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