Would you shoot hardball in a Series 70 Gold Cup?

L

Lavan

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I haven't yet shot any factory hardball in the Gold Cup.

Curious as to am I just nuts? The Gold Cup is very accurate with my pipsqueak 3.5 gr. Bullseye, 185 gr WC loads.

I have some hardball in the safe that I don't have a gun specifically for it.
Thinking of using a heavier spring in the Gold Cup and using them in that.

Ideas?

(other than OCD therapy) :D
 
I don't think any hardball ammo should be used.

A high ranking USN officer brought his '70's Colt gold cup to the USN small arms match conditioning unit in San Diego to be rebuilt. The armourer detail stripped it and everything except the frame was tossed into a trash can. The Navy captain was at a loss for words until the pistol smith explained that the metal was too soft.

When the captain picked it up later, a 50 yard test target was included. 10 shots in 1.5 inches.
 
I have a 1980's MKIV series 70 government built by master .45 gunsmith Bob Chow. The accompanying letter states "built for hardball".
So I believe the steel is hard enough. He did install shock buffers though, and I have no way to know if the spring was changed by the former owner.
 
In what year was the pistol built, if you happen to know?

Unless I’m missing something, a pistol shouldn’t face irreparable damage from shooting hardball unless there was a serious problem with the metallurgy or the recoil spring was broken or worn out completely. Certainly some such metallurgy problems have occurred in the past, but unless you know of something wrong with your particular pistol (based on year of manufacture, serial number range, etc) I feel like it should be fine. A number of 1911 focused outfits sell recoil springs for different power factors if you really want to tailor something for whatever ammunition you buy. I have used Shok Bufs before. My experience was they can cause their own issues in terms of feeding and being able to release the slide using the slide lock.

I would stick with a quality manufacturer of ammunition. Personally I’d use something from Federal (even if many manufacturers are under the Vista umbrella). All the 1911s I’ve owned have fed, extracted, and ejected Federal (whether Range and Target, American Eagle, Ultra Target and Range, etc.) without issue. Even if that isn’t an option most 45 ACP factory loads I’ve shot aren’t earth shattering. Stay away from the +P loadings if you’re particularly concerned.


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As above Colt used to (still) ships the Gold Cup with two springs, one for 185 grain lead Target ammo, and one for 230 grain hard ball.
The 230 grain spring is the standard 16 pound spring Colt uses on all Government Model size versions.

Back in the 1960's Skeeter Skelton did an article where he and friends shot 10,000 rounds each through an aluminum frame Commander and a Gold Cup.
This was in response to stories that neither was up to use with full charge ammo.

The Commander did get a small crack in a non-critical area of the frame.
Since then Colt has improved the aluminum they use.

The Gold Cup only appeared to be well broken in. There was no damage and only normal signs or wear from use.

If you shoot ammo over standard velocities you can try an 18 pound recoil spring.
A recoil buffer also may ease your mind, but with the correct spring 230 grain ammo isn't going to harm a Colt made after WWII.
 
I had several 70 Series, and a couple later Gold Cups. I shot more factory hardball, and equivalent handloads, in them than anything else. I used 16# - 18 1/2# recoil springs. Only issue I had, other than some of my GCs being unreliable and inaccurate, was the pin sometimes working out of the Elliason rear sights.

I still have that Skeeter Skelton article Defariswheel mentions around here somewhere. My alloy framed Commander did crack in the same area Skeeter's did. And at considerably less than the 5000 rounds he put through his.....
 
Just a nagging concern over whether to risk what's now a tight but 100% functional very accurate pistol with hotter ammo than I now shoot.
:)
 
I would argue that if the pistol can’t shoot standard pressure FMJ without damaging itself then it isn’t 100% functional (exceptions for historical firearms).


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I've shot thousands of rounds of Hard Ball out of my Colts with no problems whatsoever. NRA Bullseye has a specific match for Hardball and they wouldn't do it if there was a problem.

Buy 1000 rounds and shoot them. You will not have to buy brass for many years after that if you reload.
 
Bart B. said:
I don't think any hardball ammo should be used.

A high ranking USN officer brought his '70's Colt gold cup to the USN small arms match conditioning unit in San Diego to be rebuilt. The armourer detail stripped it and everything except the frame was tossed into a trash can. The Navy captain was at a loss for words until the pistol smith explained that the metal was too soft.

When the captain picked it up later, a 50 yard test target was included. 10 shots in 1.5 inches.
Click to expand...
Did Colt use the same basic frame for the Series 70 government and Combat Commander models? Or, did Colt use a softer frame for the Gold Cup. It does not seem logical that they would not use the same frame.
 
I bought a used Series 70 Gold Cup in the 80s. I’ve put a lot of 200 and 230 grain ammo through it. I ran an 18.5 pound recoil spring for years and recently went to a 16 pound spring.

The mainspring in a Gold Cup might be lighter than a Government model. I’ve read different accounts.

Yes the cross pin on the Elliason rear sight can walk out. I’ve gone from a roll pin to a solid pin back to a roll pin. It still moves. I have learned to keep an eye on it.

The Series 70 Cup has a sear depressor and a tiny spring. Many people advocate removing these small parts if the gun is to be used for defensive purposes lest it disable the gun. Those parts were already gone from my pistol when I bought it.

I really like the wide trigger but it’s heavy. Eventually my hammer started following the slide. Gunsmith recommended going to an aluminum trigger; Wilson Combat makes one that fits but I miss the Classic look of that skeletonized steel Gold Cup trigger.
 
Mine came with a hardball recoil spring and a target load spring. Probably 75-80% of the rounds I’ve put through it were hardball. No problem.
 
dahermit said:
Did Colt use the same basic frame for the Series 70 government and Combat Commander models? Or, did Colt use a softer frame for the Gold Cup. It does not seem logical that they would not use the same frame.
Click to expand...
I have toured the Colt factory twice. ALL Colt 1911s begin as raw forgings. It wasn't discussed, because I had no reason to even ask, but I'm quite certain that Colt doesn't buy one batch of "soft" forgings to make Gold Cups and a different batch of "hard" forgings to make everything else.
 
Crunchy Frog said:
The Series 70 Cup has a sear depressor and a tiny spring. Many people advocate removing these small parts if the gun is to be used for defensive purposes lest it disable the gun. Those parts were already gone from my pistol when I bought it.

I really like the wide trigger but it’s heavy. Eventually my hammer started following the slide. Gunsmith recommended going to an aluminum trigger; Wilson Combat makes one that fits but I miss the Classic look of that skeletonized steel Gold Cup trigger.
Click to expand...
That's why Colt put those missing parts in the Gold Cup - to prevent doubling.
 
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