Would you Carry or use??

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WhatRecoil

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Reloads in a SD situation. Some say yes as long as the loads carried match the performance of your local LE. Personally I don't to avoid legal difficulties.Does anyone here have actual experience that varieties doing this as legal?
 
This is a common question on the forum. A search should give lots of reading.

Basically my take is, why bother? Its not like you are going to blow thru thousands of rounds of your chosen SD ammo. A cpl boxes to function test and determine POI with your gun and a few mags to carry.

I chrono'd my SD load and then built a handload that mimics it out of my gun. In this case 147gn 9mm @ 975fps outta a G19. That load shoots to the same POI as the Golddot load that i carry for SD.

I can train/practice with my handloads to my hearts content without the cost of shooting Golddots
 
Sensible Shark bite.

I live in Montana (by the grace of God!), and I doubt you would be question end in court about using SD hand loads, so long as you didn't create something exotic. That said, I still figure why risk it, and use factory ammo for duty/carry.

Also, an errant bit of bullet lube can tie up even a revolver to the point where you are out of the fight. Just ask any SASS member.
 
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No. For me, it's much easier to defend in court factory ammo. And factory ammo is as good as it gets for self defense.
 
I elect to not ever carry handloads for defensive use and I never place them in the position at home for defense either. Outside of defense ammo and rimfire, I buy -ZERO- factory ammo.

If the world went crazy in an instant, however, it would not make my Top 10 list of "crap that matters" but there is one thing that experience has proven to me over and over and over and OVER: this subject nearly always gets obnoxious and nasty when discussed in online gun forums. My bold prediction is that this newest version of it will either wither quickly -- or it too will get irate and obnoxious.

I think every person is free to weigh the pro/con and make their decision.
 
Will probably regret wading into this issue, but......

I shoot (and carry) nothing but handloads. I am not, nor will any internet guru cause me to be, concerned about potential legal ramifications of this. Just so much internet blather - worth exactly what you pay for it.

Most people, including "internet cowboys" know less about the law than one could fit on the head of a pin. I do know enough to know that, in and of itself, carrying handloads and using them in an SD situation is the least of your worries. It will never even come into play unless sued by the perp, or his family....which is a civil matter (with the exception that one could get in trouble with the local criminal authorities for using hollow-point bullets in a location that bans them, for example). If cleared by the local DA/ police as a justified shooting, then you are just that - clear in terms of criminal culpability. Type of ammo used will have no bearing on this - unless, as I mentioned above, you are afoul of some specific local law regarding ammo.

Civil suits are always a possibility. No one can predict, or has any statistically valid sample of information on hand, to prove that you are more or less likely to be sued if handloads are used.....or more or less likely to win or lose. It is ALL a bunch of speculation, fueled by rumour and anecdotal nonsense ("my cousin heard that a guy got sued for ......") blah blah blah. Nothing but speculation - you do NOT ever know what will happen, until it does.

In a circumstance of being sued, I would be much more likely to be worried about the details of the shooting itself, that is, that it was clearly justified....than anything else.
 
Dont misunderstand me. Im not a liability freak. I will use what i deem to be the most effective ammo and platform for the task at hand.

As an example, my HD guns, Handgun and Rifle both wear suppressors. I dont buy into the thought process that says "dont use NFA firearms for defensive".

I just dont see the benefit of using handloads for SD. Too many GREAT factory offerings out there
 
Wpsdlrg, I don't fault your reasoning or logic in any way, and 95% or more of the time you'll be right on all points...its just that Mr. Murphy stalks me so! I REALLY DO think nothing would be made of it, especially in MT. Possibly not even in the civil trial, but it is a risk I can mitigate in advance. Plus as Sharkbite said, there are so many great factory offerings these days. I can't do better to any significant degree. YMMV.

But again, I don't fault you for your choice. Carry it in good health, and shoot it straight if the time comes. I'll do the same.
 
This has been well documented and discussed on TFL:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=452627

Since the processes of jury trials and appearance are well understood, opinions that such don't count or in your layperson opinion, appearance that such won't be a factor in a specific trial really aren't that useful.

Read the info in the above URL and make your own decision.

I'm not going to close it, but will if we get nonempirically based rants.
 
I live out in the woods and if the dogs start acting up at night it's probably a critter of some kind, so I generally have my handloads in my everyday carry gun as long as I'm home, just to be safe legally if I go to town I switch mags loaded with factory rounds.
 
I reload and shoot them a lot, and would have no problem in using them, if they were all I had.

Im not arrogant enough to believe that my reloads compare to what major ammo companies have spent beau coup bucks in R&D on either. Not that they coundnt be, given the right components and loads. For what a case or two cost, why bother trying to out do them?

On the otherhand, one thing I will say is, Ive had more issues with factory ammo overall, than I have had with any of my reloads, and thats always been the case, regardless of caliber or type.

Considering that I reload and shoot somewhere in the vicinity of 20,000 rounds of just 9mm each year, and shoot maybe 5% of that in factory, its even scarier when you think about it.

Just because its "factory", in reality, doesnt guarantee a thing.

As an example, my HD guns, Handgun and Rifle both wear suppressors. I dont buy into the thought process that says "dont use NFA firearms for defensive".
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I never did either. My main SD long gun for the past 30 years or so until I got rid of it, was an HK MP5.

These days, like you, a suppressed rifle and handgun are handy. If I had time and opportunity to grab one, it would be my choice, and for obvious reasons.
 
Here is a subtle point. The issue isn't that you shouldn't use XY or Z but to be aware that if you do, your lawyer should be aware of the potential legal risks of such appearance issues and have a reasonable strategy to defuse such - if they can.

It has been suggested, for instance, that your lawyer just has to say that an NFA gun is just a tool and the antigun person on the jury will roll over and lick your feet. Or a hunter is the best choice (see Zumbo and some studies that indicate hunters and progun folks can be harsher to 'bad' shoots).

If you are in court, it's a bad shoot in someone's eyes and you are having a bad time that day.
 
Every time every day

I have other people shooting my reloads and their comments are wow your reloads work in my gun much better then factory. Factory reloads have to work in the weakest model for each caliber mine do not.
 
WhatRecoil said:
Reloads in a SD situation. Some say yes as long as the loads carried match the performance of your local LE. Personally I don't to avoid legal difficulties.Does anyone here have actual experience that varieties doing this as legal?
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There is nothing illegal about using reloads, even your own reloads, for self defense. The issue becomes one of evidence if the shooting is at all questionable, and gunshot residue ("GSR") is part of the evidence. A crime lab can't use data obtained from test firing your handloads because there's no way to document their consistency.

Moderator Frank Ettin wrote a lengthy and very informative post on the subject here a year or two ago.
 
wpsdlrg said:
Most people, including "internet cowboys" know less about the law than one could fit on the head of a pin. I do know enough to know that, in and of itself, carrying handloads and using them in an SD situation is the least of your worries. It will never even come into play unless sued by the perp, or his family....
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This is incorrect. I strongly suggest that you read Frank Ettin's explanation of why. Frank is not an "internet cowboy," he's a qualified attorney.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4600667&postcount=109
 
Since we are now responding (correctly I might add) to posts that are ignorant of the issues and do exactly what I said (have noninformed opinions) - I suggest that the OP and other viewers do what I said and Aguila Blanca said - read the analyses at the URLs given.

Thus, as I said - this is closed.
 
I do know enough to know that, in and of itself, carrying handloads and using them in an SD situation is the least of your worries.
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It could well be--probably will be, most to the time. That does not mean that it will never become pivotal.

It will never even come into play unless sued by the perp, or his family....
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That is not true.

And if it were true, what comfort would that provide?
 
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