Would like a longer reach than my MBR

B

BFaulty

Inactive
Hello,

I've monitored this forum for a while and thought I would sign up and gather advice from the experts.

I have my main battle rifle. I'm looking to add a rifle that can reach out to 600m. Granted I am not that good a shot so a scope and bipod would be needed. I'm not that young anymore so a very reasonable recoil is required. I want to be able to have a quick follow up's, so I'm looking at semi auto's as my first choice.

I really like the Browning BAR in .270,.308, or maybe .300WSM. The Bernelli R1 looks interesting and it claims 1/2 the recoil of other rifles (assume they mean bolt actions). But, then I saw a Enfield .303 for sale locally with a scope and bipod for $400. The issues with the Enfield is the recoil and the cost of ammo.

The Browning is going for about $1,000 new ($500 to $600 used), then add a scope. A new Bernelli is about $1,000 with used ones going for about $1000 on GB (not sure why).

Do I go with the $400 Enfield and deal with the recoil, but have a 800m rifle in the setup I want. Or, go for one of the modern rifles with more manageable recoil, a warranty, but put up $1600 for the setup I want?

Thanks in advance.
 
You didn't say what your MBR is. I believe that an MBR is a rifle that can reach out to 600 Meters/yards. So if your current weapon isn't there then it probably is not an MBR. M16/AR 15's are not MBRs. They are assault/CQB rifles along with the AK47.

600 meters is not typical hunting range, so I would expect that you are target shooting. So, why not get a good $400 bolt action, like a Remington 783? In .308, you could learn the ballistics... Shooting 600 yards is kind of a team effort. You could shoot by yourself, but it kind of calls for a spotter. So, you want to develop the dope, take wind reading, record your results, have a spotter on a spotting scope.

The old military rifles are cool, I would love to have an historical rifle, but for putting bullet on target at 600, I would just go for a modern bolt action.

I have an M1a, that I tried doing 500 by myself with Milsurp ammo. I basically put them all around the target trying to read the kicked up dust. I determined that next time I can get to a long range, I will have somebody spot for me.
 
You'll get a LOT more rifle for the money, and generally a lot more accuracy for the money with a bolt rifle. There are $300 bolt guns out there that will most likely be more accurate than one of the $1000 semi's.

Semi's can be very accurate, it just takes a lot more work and money to make it happen. The bolt gun can be made more accurate for a lot less money and work.

I'll let others help with the specifics, but if you stay with a low recoiling round in the 308, 7mm or 6.5mm range, and put it in a fairly heavy rifle recoil will be pretty mild, even from a bolt gun.
 
Regarding the definition of a Battle Rifle, (from wikipedia...):

A battle rifle is a military service rifle that fires a full-power rifle cartridge, such as 7.62x51mm NATO. While the designation of battle rifle is usually given to post-World War II select fire infantry rifles such as the FN FAL, the M14 and the H&K G3,[1] this term is also used to describe older military full-powered semi-automatic rifles such as the M1 Garand, the MAS-49 and the FN-49.

The term 'battle rifle' is a neologism. It was created largely out of a need to better differentiate the intermediate-power assault rifles (StG-44, AK-47 and M16) from the full-powered automatic rifles (FN FAL, M14 rifle and H&K G3) as both classes of firearms have similar appearances and share many of the same features. It was first used in the late 1990s by various firearms publications and by several notable firearms writers.[citation needed] It is not defined in, or frequently used in, military field manuals or government documents. Prior to the 1990s, the term was not well defined and was used as a general description for all types of military rifles.
Click to expand...

I personally like the differentiation between full power rifles and those that pull their punches. Ok... I am an M14 freak - confession. But really, every weapon has a legitimate use like different tools. So I don't mean to denigrate anything.

Edit:
An assault rifle is a selective fire rifle that uses an intermediate cartridge and a detachable magazine.[1] Assault rifles are currently the standard service rifles in most modern armies. Examples of assault rifles include the StG 44, AK-47 and the M16 rifle.
Click to expand...
 
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Well I decided to go with the Enfield. Granted it is not a common caliber, but it is available for between $0.45 to $0.80 a round. I like the extras this one comes with, its good reputation for accuracy plus it's a bit unique these days. Maybe I'm developing a soft spot for classic surplus mil rifles.
I'll update how it shoots in a few weeks.

Cheers
 
A MBR is the main combat rifle used by infantry troops. In WWII it was the M1903s and MI Garands.
Korea it was the M1, and regardless of what Wippy says, the M16A1 was our main battle rifle used in Vietnam, Gulf, Iraq and Afghan.

Regardless;

As to a 600 meter/yard rifle, The most common rifle used in High Power Matches (200-300 and 600 yards) is in fact the AR using 223 ammo. Some darn good scores have been fired at 600 yards, and some, at 1000 (though the 308 series ARs would be better at 1000).

You mentions the 270 Win, you'll find its more then adequate at 600 and farther. As is the 308, 243,..............I could go on forever. That includes the .303 you mentioned.

600 yards is about the shooter more then the rifle/ammo. If I was to make a recommendation, I'd pick a 223 w/a 1:8/7 twist and learn to shoot it. Ammo is cheaper, meaning more rounds down range.

Dump the bipod, benches and sandbags, learn to use a sling unsupported and concentrate on fundamentals. Learn to read wind and mirage.

I don't care what rifle or ammo you use, it wont take much wind to blow if off the target if you don't adjust for it.

FUNDAMENTALS are the key.
 
If I wanted a long range MBR, I would have an M1A rebarreled and rebuilt to match grade specifications for the .308 Winchester. Then find 10 magazines that all let the rifle shoot to the same point of aim for each one (not easy, but needed for best results) An M1 Garand would do just as well and all clips used in them shoot the same and it could be reloaded faster, but it's only an 8-shot semiauto. Then stock up on commercial match ammo; it's more reliable than any reloads are as well as more accurate in these rifles

The accuracy of the best ones back when they were winning so many service rifle matches was all shots inside 4 to 5 inches at 600 yards with good lots of commercial match ammo. At 1000 yards, they would shoot under 10 inches. This is as tested in free recoil clamped in accuracy cradles (machine rests). Nobody ever shot them that accurate holding onto them hard against their shoulder; att 600 yards and further, accuracy was 2 to 3 times that amount for the best marksmen shooting them.

In 2012, the US Army had given up on the 5.56 NATO round being good for competition past 600 yards. They switched to AR10's shooting the .308 Win. and got the NRA to classify it as a USA service rifle.
 
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"...decided to go with the Enfield..." That'd be a good thing. The other rifles you mentioned are not battle rifles. They're commercial hunting rifles.
Anyway, before you shoot any Lee-Enfield, check the headspace. Thousands of 'em have been assembled out of parts bins with zero QC. And matching numbers means nothing. And slug the barrel. Lee-Enfield barrels can measure from .311" to .315" and still be considered ok. Over .315" the barrels is considered shot out. Problem is factory ammo and reloading bullets are .311" or .312". Not good for accuracy out of a .314" or .315" barrel.
"...given up on the 5.56 NATO round..." It was never intended to be used at long ranges. 300 yards was about the average distance for a PBI battle during W.W. II in NW Europe.
Mind you, the 5.56 was never intended to be a battle rifle cartridge either. McNamara decided it would be, with no input from anybody who knew what they were talking about.
The M16 rifle is not an assault rifle. Nor are any current rifles other than the AK family. Your definition is incorrect too. "Uses an intermediate cartridge" left out the part that says of the same calibre as the regular PBI rifle but with a smaller cartridge.
 
I'd just like to make a post to point out, my AR(Armalite Rifle), has never "assaulted" anyone. Since we're being all technical 'n such.....6plus1:)
 
Thanks for the info on the headspace of the Enfield. I had already lined up a gunsmith in the area to do a full inspection of the weapon before I take it to the range.

In retrospect I should not have used the term MBR. It seems to have taken us off on a tangent.
 
The Military Channel has a video on the Top Ten - Combat Rifles - of all time. Now, that is a debate we can have until the cows come home. :)
 
I had considered the K31. However, I think if my next one is another mil surplus, it will be the M1 Garand. Not that the K31 or a K98 would not be a nice addition.
Cheers.
 
The most logical supplement for a medium power mag fed semi-auto(there, I clarified the OP) is a medium-heavy barreled .308 bolt rifle with a good quality variable power scope. Mine are based on Mauser actions (or Savage) and weigh around 9.5-10.5#. Solid, easily shootable, accurate, attenuate recoil well making longer range hits easier.
W/o considerable knowledge of wind drift and experience, I seriously doubt the effectiveness of any rifle/cartridge at 800 yards. I shot competitively on a military rifle team and have a good idea of what it takes to make those shots. Hitting a car sized target by walking hits on target isn't all that difficult if conditions are consistent. Making a first shot hit on "smaller targets" is a whole different story.
 
Try a Marlin X7-VH, in .308...they start around $349 if you shop carefully.
Heavy barrel, pro-fire trigger, factory pillar bedding, factory recoil pad, Sub-MOA out of the box.

All you gotta do is buy good glass and be able to control your breath & trigger finger.
Its freekin Idiot Proof.
 
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