Would a Scandium 8-shot N-frame .357 make sense?

J

Jim March

New member
C title. Picture a 3" barrel, Scandium N-frame 8-shot. Porting optional. Moon clips of course.

THAT might be the proper role for this Scandium stuff :). Get the weight somewhere up around...18oz, give or take a couple?

Might make for a REALLY nice carry gun.

While we're on the subject:

Can a moon-clip .357Mag gun shoot 9mm? I halfway suspect it might? .380 too, for that matter :).
 
Timing Issue

ALL the 7/8 shooters I've had/have have timing issues after a couple of thousand rounds. I first I tried to have something done about it...... To my mind the action just isn't right and I'm a bigtime S&W geek,indeed.

The full moon clips for the 627PC 8 shot do not stabilize the cartridges correctly but the larger cases ( you didn't specify what rounds you are aneedin' ) in say .45ACP might help solve the problem. After going thru a couple of full house cylinders in the 386 Mountain Light eight 'slams' a cylinder wouldn't add much to the fun. BUT....I'd buy one in a heartbeat ! . . . dewey .:eek: .:eek: .:eek: .:eek:


+OPPSSsss.....saw your choice of cal. in title line. I'D WANT MINE IN .45ACP,thank You, if cliped. Unclipped= .44SPL. 8 rounds of 200-240 grainers at 1,000 fps or so is my cup of tea +
 
t&w customs makes a cylinder for converting to 9 mm in the .38 line take look at here website you might find what your looking for .
 
S&W 386PD Scandium/Titanium

I own a S&W 386PD Sc/Ti an L-frame that holds 7-rounds, 17.5oz. .357MAG/ .38Special +P. Tis seems like a perfect carry gun to me! ;)
 
Coonan: I can't find "T&W Customs" or anything like it anywhere on the web. What do the "T" and "W" stand for? Or can you provide the URL?
 
I don't think it's feasible with a Ti cylinder.

My theory is that the elasticity of Titanium would cause a blow-out on any cylinder where the stop notches are not between the chambers. That's why we haven't seen 6-shot K frames, which would've been a natural addition to the line-up. An 8rd. N-frame would have the same concern.
 
I'm probably going to get flamed for this but in my classes I haven't seen many people who could control full bore 357 Magnums in rapid fire DA - the kind of thing required in self defense (carry) situations - in all steel guns.

I've had several students who showed up with Ti S&W and Taurus revolvers for my Tactical Self Defense classes who can't get through a 2/3 hour training class without developing a horrable flinch and sore hands.

The standard line I get from most people is something along the lines of "I can shoot it good enough if I have to". My question is always, how do you know since you don't practice? Where is this mythical skill going to come from?

An 18oz, 8 shot 357 Magnum with a 3" barrel would be about useless in my opinion, but since these Ti guns are selling (Taurus make a 41 Magnum) I must not know some secret the rest of you are in on.
 
How many rounds and how experienced are these students?

I've owned and shot Titaniums. They are not a beginners gun. They are shootable but after 50 rounds they get to you.

You don't put a lot of rounds through a .4?? dangerous game rifle in one session, and you don't start someone out on one. But there is a place for them. Most folks that shoot them well probably started and practiced with lighter recoiling arms.

BTW I think that there is plenty of evidence that "trained" people are going to be missing with "shootable" pistols anyway. At least lots of cops do.
 
Rifle a LOT easier to learn to shoot well, then shotgun and then handgun.

N frame is the natural and proper platform for the .357 magnum. Both because of it's strength and it's weight. Really nasty loads are quite manageable in a steel N frame.

Sam
 
Why not an 8-shot 9 mm N-Frame using moon clips or S & W's old Model 547 extraction system? 9 mm +P out of a 3 inch barrel and a .357 Magnum length cylinder is very close to being the ballistic equivilent of a .357 and is alot easier shooting.

9 mm cases are tapered, so you would need a cylinder specifically made for 9mm. Bore diameter is also about 1/1000 of an inch smaller than .357. So, for optimal performance you would need a barrel made specifically for 9mm also.
 
Bore diameter not that big a deal. When manufacturing tolerances are cranked in......slug a bunch of 9X19s and a bunch of .357 mags and you will likely find both calibers at the smallest and the largest ends of the spectrum.

Sam
 
David T

I think the problem is they are students and probably do not have enough experience with almost any revolver.
I have about 25 years of revolver experience and I have become very good at combat shooting/ rapid fire, and I only shoot double-action. If any person can not shoot double-action, accuratly, rapid fire with a revolver then I suggest they get a lot more practice before they carry any revolver for self-defense.
Being I said what I just said, I think that they also should start with steel revolvers untill they have alot more experience. I can shoot my S&W 360Sc and 386PD with .357MAG, rapid-fire and hit a 12"x12" target at 25', 13 out of 14 rounds fired, and with very close groupings!
Even though I love my Scandium/Titanium guns I would be the first person to tell anyone that these guns are not for everyone, especially people with very little shooting experience.
 
Hmmmm.

Set it up for 9x23 and it would still be able to eat 9mm out of the same cylinder and moon-clips, no?

Even a 9mm variant would work pretty good. Velocity out of 2" barrel 940s has been quite good.
 
Ken,

Yes they were (for the most part) beginners, and of course there are people who can shoot full power 357 Magnums DA and control them. I started my law enforcement career with a M28 and shot nothing but magnum loads through it in double action mode for a solid year. At the end of that year the timing was so bad the gun was dangerous to bystanders (spitting led). I switched to the 1911 and carried that until I retired.

My whole problem with this concept is that everyone seems to think, if they can shoot well with 38 Specials in their (pick your favorite 357 Mag revolver) they will be able to handle the magnums well enough to defend themselves if/when they "have to". I was responsible for training 400 armed personnel at my department and have trained over 700 in my CCW classes. The above stated theory just doesn't hold up in the real world, in my experience. Maybe you know people who can handle Magnums in these extremely light weight guns. I haven't seen one yet and question how many are out there.
 
My concern is more regarding how well the firearm will hold up, rather than the shooter.

I sent my Ti-Tracker back to Taurus due to what appeared to be hairline fractures in the cylinder (after less than 300 rounds). They finally sent me a NEW .357 Ti-Tracker after almost 8 weeks of dragging their feet - and then only due to my almost daily calls goading them into it. And that's 8 weeks from the time they received it - not from the time I shipped it. I'm just not too hep on a "lifetime" warranty when it takes a lifetime to get them to honor it...

Regardless, I'm less than impressed with the 7-shot's cylinder strength in titanium - at least in the one Taurus specimen I've experienced. I haven't yet filled out the yellowsheet on the replacement gun as I'm seriously considering trading to the dealer towards something else.

Granted this is an L-frame 7-shot issue, rather than an N-frame 8-shot issue. Perhaps Smiths are better, but the whole titanium experience certainly gives me pause.
 
Dave

In most part I agree with you, I personaly do not know anyone else that can handle the .357MAG rounds in the J-Frame Scandium/Titanium revolvers. I am just now begaining to get comfortable with .357MAG ammo in my J-Frame S&W-360Sc, but becouse I do not feel totaly comfortable with .357MAG, I still carry .38Special +P in said gun.
Now when it comes to my S&W-386PD, I basically could handle the .357MAG rounds (130grain) from the very first time I shot it. The only reason I was able to handle this gun from the begaining was becouse of my very extensive experience. The first S&W Titanium gun that I bought was the model-337Ti .38Special +P almost as soon as it hit the gun store shelf.
I totaly agree with you, that it is very wrong to practice with .38Special and then carry .357MAG in the gun, just to assume that they can handle it when they need it. I always practice with the very same ammo that I carry for self defense. Some people say that it is to expensive to shoot the more expensive ammo in this way, but my answer to them is "What is Your Life worth to you!"
 
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