Worship and pay corporate-government

LAK

Moderator
to be a first class citizen - or if you are unable to - or refuse - grovel around second class.

Cashing in on "the war", in this case Steven Brill and Verified Identity Pass Inc. "Lucky" Brill eh?

Notice that the "pro and con" of the article is solely whether or not and why so-and-so thinks it will be effective. Not on the issue of corporate-government merger, and creating second class citizens out of "non-particpants" .....

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Associated Press
Voluntary Security ID to Debut in Florida
06.03.2005, 02:36 PM

Beginning June 21, the Orlando airport will let travelers pay $80 a year for a card that guarantees an exclusive security line and the promise of no random secondary pat-down. To get this new "Clear" card, travelers would have to be vetted by the Department of Homeland Security and submit to fingerprint and iris scans.

Since the federal government began letting select frequent fliers with new high-tech passes speed through airport security checkpoints, one of the biggest complaints has been that the year-old program is too limited to be of much use.

Now, a privately run version coming online in Florida could spur efforts to broaden the program - and boost media entrepreneur Steven Brill's vision of installing such a system across the nation at airports and other security-sensitive locations.

Similar systems exist at some European airports, and in five U.S. airports as part of a test by the Transportation Security Administration.

But the TSA's "Registered Traveler" program, which is free for now while in its test phase, has been capped at 10,000 participants, and cards obtained at one airport don't work at others.

The company behind Clear is Verified Identity Pass Inc., which Brill founded in 2003 in hopes of creating a nationwide, voluntary system that would give pre-screened people a dedicated fast lane for entering secure areas - not only at airports but also office buildings, power plants and stadiums.

Brill, the founder of Court TV and American Lawyer magazine, argues that while more rigorous security checks are needed in post-Sept. 11 America, it doesn't make sense for everyone to have to go through them.

Founded in 2003, New York-based Verified ID has attracted such investors as Lehman Bros. and Lockheed Martin Corp., which is providing the technology for Clear. But until the Orlando deal, Verified Identity Pass had not snared a customer.

Brill says he has had talks with about 20 other airports.

He's giving them good reason to listen: In its proposal to Orlando officials - which beat a rival bid from technology integrator Unisys Corp. - Verified ID promised to share 29 percent of Clear's first-year revenue with the airport authority and as much as 22.5 percent in succeeding years. The airport also would get 2.5 percent of Clear's future nationwide revenue.

The proposal says Verified ID expects to have 3.3 million members across the nation within six years, with annual memberships likely costing $100.

That kind of participation is well beyond the scope of the TSA's Registered Traveler tests, which have been limited to certain airlines' passengers in Boston, Los Angeles, Houston, Minneapolis-St. Paul and Washington-Reagan. A separate, older program, known as INSPASS, lets frequent international travelers whisk through some U.S. Customs checkpoints with the use of hand-shape biometrics.

The TSA is open to broadening Registered Traveler through public-private partnerships, and several airports have expressed interest, said Steve Van Beek, executive vice president of policy for Airports Council International, a trade association. But he is concerned that the concept could run aground unless the TSA enforces technology standards that enable cards to work at more than one airport.

Not everyone, however, is ready for trusted-traveler programs to take off.

Chris Bidwell, who oversees security for the Air Transport Association, which represents airlines, says it remains to be seen whether Registered Traveler does much to enhance security, especially because many airports' lines aren't that long anyway.

Privacy watchdogs have questioned how flyers' personal data will be handled, although Brill pledges that Clear will obtain minimal information on its members and store almost none. For example, the system will not record its users' comings and goings the way automated toll-collection devices do.

"We have much less information about you, at our best, than any credit card company has," Brill said.

(Brill also has distanced himself from Choicepoint Inc., the data aggregator originally cited as one of Verified ID's partners. Brill said he wouldn't work with the company until it fixes the problems that led to a massive leak of personal information to identity thieves that came to light in February. A private data-mining company like Choicepoint isn't necessary for Clear in airports anyway, since the government is doing the vetting.)

Other observers worry that fast lanes will be tempting to terrorists whose records are clean enough to earn them a "trusted" label.

"As soon as you make an easy path and a hard path through a security system, you invite the bad guys to try to take the easy path," said Bruce Schneier, author of "Beyond Fear: Thinking Sensibly about Security in an Uncertain World."

"It's counterintuitive," Schneier said. "Everyone complains: `Why are you frisking grandmas?' But if you don't frisk grandmas, that's who (terrorists) are going to pick to carry bombs."

© 2005 Forbes.com Inc.™ All Rights Reserved

http://www.forbes.com/home/feeds/ap/2005/06/03/ap2076036.html
 
Boy, LAK, they just can't win with you, can they?

Set up intrusive, rights-violating strip searches at the airports, and it's 1984.

Some entrepreneur finds a way for you to bribe your way out of said strip search, and it's 1984 with commercials.

What's a person gotta do to be on the side of the angels?
 
One solution that would guarantee a level playing field is to make the $80 fee mandatory for all passengers.

Is that fair, or what? Everybody happy?

John
 
re: johnbt

See? There you go!

Everybody who wants to submit to the flying cattlecars can pony up the extra $80 and let the .gov paw through their sock drawer in return for the Get Out Of Jail Free card, nobody gets strip-searched, and those of us leading lives of indolent luxury can continue to avoid the whole rigamarole and drive wherever we need to go.

Presto!

Think of the money saved on Reynold's Wrap yarmulke-making supplies. :cool:
 
Tamara,

The principle of all these "public-private" corporate-government schemes is flat wrong, and so is turning people who can not or do not want to pay another recurring tax, and carry yet another card to use air travel, into second class citizens.

There are enough people already who can not afford to take their families to National Parks and other venues because of the fact that they are already being taxed to death. And inevitably this kind of thing will creep into other fertile areas too.

If we want reasonably safe air travel all that is needed is to get those people out of the country who should not be here, vet those coming in heavily at the ports, and secure our geographical borders. Let the airlines handle the security on their own aircraft. If the government wants to pull people aside at airports for a strip search and extra close attention - let them do it to people who are citizens of selected foreign countries and or actual terror suspects.
 
"If we want reasonably safe air travel all that is needed is to get those people out of the country who should not be here"

How, in a free society, do you determine who should not be here?

Tim
 
LAK said:
If we want reasonably safe air travel all that is needed is to get those people out of the country who should not be here, vet those coming in heavily at the ports, and secure our geographical borders
Apparently you think that we don't produce many criminals domestically, that most of them are imported.

The vast majority of inmates in American prisons are Americans. Do you propose that we expel these American criminals to another coutnry? :confused:
 
The principle of all these "public-private" corporate-government schemes is flat wrong, and so is turning people who can not or do not want to pay another recurring tax, and carry yet another card to use air travel, into second class citizens.

You seem to be mistaken, LAK, about your status during air travel. While flying on a commercial carrier, you are not a citizen, but a consumer of a private (albeit highly government-regulated) service.

Saying that this is turning people who don't want to buy the Get-Out-Of-Purgatory-Free card into "second class citizens" is like claiming the airlines are turning the people flying coach or business class into second class citizens by denying them the perks available to those who purchased first class seats. You also have an opt-out clause to all this nonsense, easily activated by the shiny metal object hanging from your keychain.

Next issue.
 
TimRB
How, in a free society, do you determine who should not be here?
Simple; if you were not born here, are not a naturalized U.S. citizen, are not visiting from a no-visa-required country with a valid passport, passport with no valid visa, no alien registration card, nor any other travel document issued by the United States government etc - it is time to leave right away.

They need to stop issuing student and any other visas to people from countries that have widespread corruption within their governments and institutions - or are known to field so-called "terrorists". That cuts out alot of countries.

Matter of fact, they need to review the current visas, alien registration cards, and applications to become naturalized U.S. citizens going back about 20 years or more. It seems that some administrations - including the current one - may have given them to people who should not have them.

The "free country" as we know it will not survive otherwise. Our rights as United States citizens come first. It is our country, and not here to be colonized by or because of change agents and bureaucrats who will do anything but what is required - and then with each new "crisis" add some new control and or tax on all of us, infringing on our liberties, and turning many people into second class citizens.
 
The blues Man
Apparently you think that we don't produce many criminals domestically, that most of them are imported.
This is not about crime; this is about so-called "terrorism". If this was about crime, there would not have been a running controversy about the treatment of and the rights of a number of people in our "jails" in Iraq and places like Cuba.

The vast majority of inmates in American prisons are Americans. Do you propose that we expel these American criminals to another coutnry?
I do not think it is the vast majority. It might be "more than fifty percent", but the vast majority I think not. At least from my recollections on various pieces and discussions on the subject. But we do not have to worry about people in U.S. prisons hijacking airliners now do we.

Those who should not be let out of our prisons are a concern - and there is a pattern in that regard that needs to be remedied. It is a judicial (and legislative) issue of course, and turning the whole country into an extension of the prison yard is certainly not on
 
Tamara
You seem to be mistaken, LAK, about your status during air travel. While flying on a commercial carrier, you are not a citizen, but a consumer of a private (albeit highly government-regulated) service.
I am not mistaken; rather I think that you have not given this much thought. While you are on a private commercial airliner - or bus, or train, or ship for that matter - jurisdiction, law and rights do still apply. Likewise when you enter the airport, process and are boarding.

Subjecting any United States citizen, to extra searches, delays etc by an agent or official of the United States government, while allowing others to pass based on a pay-for-privilege card is a blatant violation of rights, and a violation of the Civil Rights Act.

Saying that this is turning people who don't want to buy the Get-Out-Of-Purgatory-Free card into "second class citizens" is like claiming the airlines are turning the people flying coach or business class into second class citizens by denying them the perks available to those who purchased first class seats.
Not the same thing at all. We are not talking about nicer seats, more legroom, meals, beverages and service.

This is a government sanctioned scheme, and the searches and delays etc to be conducted by and subject to the discretion of government agents or officials. If I can not afford or do not want to pay for 1st class tickets for me and my family I should still be able to board the plane, ship or train not being subject to any more searches, delays or questioning than those who go 1st class.
 
"Simple; if you were not born here, are not a naturalized U.S. citizen, are not visiting from a no-visa-required country with a valid passport, passport with no valid visa, no alien registration card, nor any other travel document issued by the United States government etc - it is time to leave right away."

Fair enough, but how do you find those people once they're here? Aliens, legal or illegal, are not generally required to check in periodically and let the police know where they are. Absent some suspicious circumstances, the police are not at liberty to stop people and ask them to produce ID or other documentation.

Tim
 
Tamara said:
You seem to be mistaken, LAK, about your status during air travel. While flying on a commercial carrier, you are not a citizen, but a consumer of a private (albeit highly government-regulated) service.
A commercial airliner is private property, but as you say it is regulated by government. It is not regulated in the way most corporations are regulated, having to abide by certain rules internal to the corporation, or having to pay taxes, or having the corporate officers fingerprinted, or anything like that.

No, in the case of air travel, it's the customers who are regulated, and the airline staff are forced to carry out those regulations.

This is no private enterprise. It is the government's hand, whether or not it's wearing a glove that says "Delta." The government has chopped off the invisible hand of free enterprise, but they dig it up and tell everyone to ignore dirt caked onto it whenever anyone asks who's in charge.
 
tyme,

True 'dat, but if the .gov is going to accept a little mordida in lieu of the usual rectal probe, I'm not about to complain. I don't see the "second class citizen" aspect that LAK is ranting about, is all. If one can afford airfare, one can certainly afford the mordida, and the violation of privacy involved is no worse than what happens at the hands of the rubber-gloved goons at the airport.

Personally, I find the whole air travel scenario these days so repugnant that I just drive, but I don't see where this instance is a step in the wrong direction...
 
It's not just the mordida. Why do you think they're taking fingerprints and iris scans?

There will be two lines at the airport in 2020. One will be riff-raff, presumed guilty, who will be chastized for daring to bring so much as a paperclip through security. The other will be composed of "upstanding citizens" each of whom will present ID, probably a contactless smartcard, submit fingerprints to be verified against the ones on file, and have both irises scanned just to hedge against fake fingerprints. If, heaven forbid, one of them forgets a gun in a bag, they may be given a pass and only have the gun confiscated. If someone in the unregistered line has a swiss army knife, it'll be off to the pokey for them.

Next stop, as soon as DNA sequencing is automated enough and cheap enough and fast enough, they will take DNA samples and start spot-checking DNA.
 
For once I agree with LAK's point, though not his reasoning.

This really is different than the case of a special (shorter) ticketing or check-in line for First Class passengers. And, while those who apply for "The Card" might argue that they've had the equivalent of a strip search in advance, it still creates one more incentive for people to submit to a .gov database registry that will do nothing to make us "safer" and everything to make us feel "less secure".

Tyme's point is also a good one. Within a few years, those without "The Card" will be presumed guilty until found innocent. "What do you have to hide?" Meantime, those in the card carrying line found with contraband will hardly be given a pass; they'll hardly be in the Billionaire, Diplomatic Corps; mostly just salaried employees trying to get somewhere to do business....Assets is assets. ;)
Rich
 
Schneier is usually spot-on. You can read a distillation of one of his books, Beyond Fear, here.

Let Verified Identity Pass, Inc. know how you feel:
Verified Identity Pass, Inc.
1270 Avenue of the Americas, Suite 508
New York, New York 10020
http://www.verifiedidpass.com
(212) 332-6304
email: info [at] verifiedidpass.com (may or may not get through; use the webform to be sure)


http://www.verifiedidpass.com/clear_howclearworks.html
Sign Up for Clear™
Note: Enrollments for Clear begin on June 21, 2005.
If you would like to sign up, please email us. We will email you the sign up information when it becomes available.

Starting on June 21, you can start your Clear Membership application online, at home or at the office, by filling out our secure online enrollment form. Then, the next time you're at the airport, stop by our ClearSpace Enrollment Station to complete your application and submit proof of identity. We'll take your photograph, and record your biometrics—in this case, your fingerprint and iris images.

Next, your application will be submitted to the U.S. Government's Transportation Security Administration (TSA), a unit of the Department of Homeland Security, for a Security Threat Assessment. Once you have passed this screening, we will charge our annual enrollment fee of $79.95 to your credit card. (TSA has asked us to tell you that this fee is to cover the costs of Clear and is not a charge requested by the TSA.) When you are approved, you will receive your Clear Card in the mail. Once you activate it, you'll be able to use the ClearLane at the airport.

Using the ClearLane

When you arrive at the airport, you'll present your Clear Card to our uniformed attendants for admission to the ClearLane. They will confirm your biometric match and allow you to proceed to the metal detectors and baggage screening. You will not be subject to "selectee status" and you will have expedited security screening.

Ongoing Security

Your Membership will be continuously reviewed by the TSA's ongoing Security Threat Assessment Process. If your security status changes, your Membership will be immediately deactivated and you will receive a notification email of your status change as well as a refund of the unused portion of your annual enrollment fee. At the airport, you will still be able to use the standard security line but not the ClearLane.

If you choose to cancel your Membership for any reason, you will also receive a full refund of the prorated portion of your annual enrollment fee.
 
Tyme expanded some on my original point. Second class citizen is where this is going. But private enterprize is very much involved in this; Verified Identity Pass Inc and other corporations like them are going to be making lots of money on the cards and "service".

TimRB,
They are pouring across our borders at the rate of thousands a day. Police, and other government agencies, hospitals etc come across these people all the time.

Tamara,
Many people might be able to afford an annual flight for themselves and or their family.

But for example, let's say a family of five have to save pretty hard to book a flight and hotel etc once a year for a very modest vacation. Exactly why should they have to come up with an extra $400.00 a year just so they can each get a friendly wave at the boarding gate instead of a grilling and stripsearch - as opposed to their government doing what it is supposed to do to get potential trouble out of the country and stopping others getting in?
 
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