World's Finest Trimmer....Gonna try it out

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Nathan

New member
In 2011, I wrote this:
"Hmmm. . .How accurate are case lengths after trimming? I would be concerned about that because case length is defined in the gun as the length of the case from the bolt face to the case mouth edge in the chamber. This really is independent of the shoulder as it should be set back some when reloaded. This style of trimmer has been done before. I think the Gracie works like that.

I strongly prefer the Wilson. It determines the length as the base of the center of the case to the mouth. Correct. It determines squareness off the mouth as perpendicular to the body. Check, it does that too. In addition, it cuts very smooth.

Good luck."

I still like my Wilson...., but facing about 3000+ 5.56 to prep, I decided the WFT is the way I will tackle this monster! Any tips on setup or gaining speed?

My plan is to tumble, FL size, tumble lube off, Hornady Swage, trim by wft, deburr, and finally uniform primer pockets. Better idea?
 
Flat face cutters still require champfering/deburring.

I got the 'Trim It II' that does length, champfer & deburr all at the same time.

I use a variable speed drill motor, with trigger lock, about 300 RPM.
$28 off eBay.
Dedicating a drill motor was just too cheap to pass up...

'General Tools' makes a drill angle guide, the drill attachment makes mounting a snap!
http://www.houzz.com/photos/43655247/General-Precision-Drill-Guide-power-tools

The mount behind the chuck makes this thing a versitle mount/tool for any stationary turning you need to do.
I made aluminum units based on how handy that gadget made a drill motor!
Honing, lapping, trimming brass length, trimming primer pockets, etc.

The one thing I'm not totally thrilled with is throwing brass shavings everywhere.

---

As for ABSLOUTE length of the case,
*IF* you can get the shoulder/Datum Line beat back CONSISTANTLY then it's pretty easy to come up with the absloute length you want.

These cutters are Datum Line (shoulder) indexed,
If your shoulders are all over the place, then your absloute length will be all over the place too.
If you can bend the shoulders back into place consistently then your length cuts will be consistant...

Length is probably the least important thing when it comes to accuracy rounds.
The only time neck length becomes critical is when you use a seater/crimper die.
Inconsistant absloute length will effect the crimp in a big way.
Short cases won't get enough crimp, long cases will get too much crimp.

A collet type 'Factory Crimp' die that indexes off the shoulder instead of the case mouth solves that issue and absloute case length becomes a moot point again.
 
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By indexing off the shoulder you control how far into the chamber the neck inserts, which is what trimming is meant to control. But by not indexing off the head you are giving up precision in crimping on the first loading after doing the trimming. The second time you load, though, if you don't trim again, you run into the variability in case stretch from round to round, so the crimp consistency advantage is only available on the first post-trim load.

Most people have no reason to crimp bottleneck rifle rounds and don't, so indexing off the shoulder is a good method for them. The Gracey and Giraud trimmers do use special cutters that trim, chamfer and deburr in one step, same as the Trim It II does. I have the Giraud and can say that it really does save time and finger fatigue, especially with large quantities of brass. I've never had an opportunity to use a Trim It tool, so I don't know how it compares. I like that the Giraud captures the brass swarf and is quick so I probably won't change, but that's not a knock on the other makes out there.
 
That triple cut is the huge time saver!
Three cuts at once, nothing quite like it...

I went 'Trim It II' because I was incorporating it into a straight line case processor.
Works exceedingly well in that capacity when a vacuum can be used easily.
Works great as a finger trimmer also... just throws brass unless you do something about the openings.
 
Like Unclenick I wound up with the Gerard.

I had the Little Crow (no chamfer or de-burr), nice for lower production but I do lots in 100 to 400.

My brother has the motorized unit, I may wind up wishing I had done that if I add more calibers but for now with two the Tri Trimmer works very well.

I figured out I can chuck my Milwaukee in the vice, turn it on and trim away.

The 3 in one is a life saver and vastly more consistent than a prep station.

3 more calibers and I would want the stationary unit with the different heads.

Its all perfectly done and well thought out, I don't know if the others are as good, I don't think it can be done any better.
 
Finger Trimmer... one at a time with fingers...
Not FINGER Trimmer! :eek: ('Stumpy')

Common drill motor, some 1" board for a mount and it's affordable for a part time low volume loader.
Turns TORTURE into a little uncomfortable...

I'm impressed with the Gurard trimmer, its the cost for lower volume and/or tight budget guys.

*IF* I were setting out to do a large volume of one caliber by hand, the Gurard would make sense.

This trimmer will give the OP a good idea how fast a power trimmer can be...
And a good idea if he wants to move up to a 3-cut version or not.
 
The WFT and Little Crow are the same trimmer.

I would just go to the Gerard drill motor type at this point.

Its not that the WFT is not a decent unit, it is. The Gerard is good in trim and also does the de-burr and chamfer.

Doing those by hand or on a prep station take more time, harder on hands (no fun getting arthritis) and takes more time.

Once I quit doing the Gerard Tri Trimmer by hand in the battery drill and put the Milwaukee plug in drill into the vice (my batteries were dead) and then found I had a poor mans Gerard motorized unit!

For me at least, the caliber specific Gerard was worth every penny (about $30 more as I recall) .
 
I would check to see if WFT has a return policy. :)

I just bought a Giraud. It was my first trimmer of this type.

I didn't see any value in the WFT since you still have to chamfer and deburr. Makes it not worth it in my eyes.

But, that's just me, and I hate case prep. If you like deburring then more power to ya.

I honestly can't see how WFT is seliing units with Giraud and Trim It 2 on the market. They both offer turnkey solutions to the evil task of case prep.
 
The 'Trim It II' appeal to me was common drive (cheap drill motor),
And INFINATELY adjustable for those slightly odd neck sizes.
Switching from .223 to .308 (or what ever caliber) isn't anything but a Datum Line inset in the bottom bearing, and adjusting the cutter head with 'Allen' wrenches.

Bring a machinest I was familiar with offset 'Fly' cutting tools & tool bit inserts, so that was an 'Old Friend' to me, might be a learning curve for others.

What made it 'Quite The Deal' for me was the drill guide.
The cheap drill guide top/chuck entension allowed me to easily solidly mount/dismount the drill vertical/horizontal or dismount & use the drill motor where ever I needed it.

Lapping rifle recievers, trimming/deburring, primer pocket work, simple wood mount allowed me to make guides so my cuts were centerline with the brass center instead of angled to 'Minute Of Finger' like most 'Case Processing Centers' are.

That guide made it easy to build simple wooden jigs that made the finished product (Brass) MUCH more accurate.
 
Im confused. The Giraud is $460 gor 1 caliber. Thr WFT is $71 and my chafer/deburr tool is $95 (Lyman). How id the Giraud $30 more?


On that note, it seems like a 1/10 hp motor, on a foot pedal 0-3000 RPM, on a nice wooden stand, with a 1/2" shaft + adapters, would be handy! Anybody have a recipe to fab this up under $75?
 
I have the WFT and unless you full length resize, it won't work at all since it indexes off the shoulder. Since Im reloading for a bolt gun, this doesnt work for me.
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I will fl size for my AR, but i question hoe your shoulders are moving inconsistently....Can you explain? The purpose of neck sizing id to keep the shoulders consistent with the chamber length...
 
Nathan said:
Im confused. The Giraud is $460 gor 1 caliber. Thr WFT is $71 and my chafer/deburr tool is $95 (Lyman). How id the Giraud $30 more?
Click to expand...

RC20 is talking about the Giraud Tri-trimmer. Similar to WFT, except the Giraud catches the trimmings. Costs $98.
 
Im confused. The Giraud is $460 gor 1 caliber. Thr WFT is $71 and my chafer/deburr tool is $95 (Lyman). How id the Giraud $30 more?
Click to expand...

I worked for a guy who said you might as well get confused and stay that way!

Yes, Gerard makes two types of trimmers.

The expensive one (motorized) and you need a head, and the WFT type that is all set to go. The expensive one is for a high use person for multiple calibers and or over 4.

Yes you have to FLA to use the shoulder trimmers, but then I do FLA anyway.

Just looked at the TT II. Interesting. More to start but less cost than a Gerard to change calibers.

Something to be said for a fixed setup as well but.......
 
I will fl size for my AR, but i question hoe your shoulders are moving inconsistently....Can you explain? The purpose of neck sizing id to keep the shoulders consistent with the chamber length...
Click to expand...

The way is was explained to me was that it using the shoulder doesnt give the true measurement you are looking for and that its not a constant. The case specification gives OAL from the base, not the shoulder. Its called Over All Length for a reason.

Im on round 6 on my brass and have not full length resized since the first time i reloaded them. I tried using the WFT on like round 2 or 3 and burned through about 20 cases adjusting, readjusting, cussing, throwing stuff and just went back to my handy Lyman with a drill. My friend swears by the Forster so I'm going with that.

For your AR, the WFT should work fine

-Robb
 
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Some WFT data for 5.56 ammo:

1.747; 1.746; 1.749; 1.753; 1.748; 1.747; 1.749; 1.751; 1.750; 1.747

1.749 +/- 0.006"......not bad accuracy considering the speed of trimming.


The 0.006 is 3 standard deviations on this dataset. Using 10 data points is a bit low of a sample size.
 
I agree, but one must remember the math here.

Your Lyman is trimming base to mouth. The WFT trims shoulder to mouth.

So:

Lyman - oal variation due to trimmer

Vs

WFT - FL size variation + trimmer variation

I would bet my fl size variation in 10 cases would have an extreme spread of 0.005, but I need to confirm my lot data.

I use this drill mount, if it helps somebody.

Also, there really may be no need for chamfer and deburring. The finished trim has very little burr.
 
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