Working up a load for 44 mag.

F

FoghornLeghorn

New member
This is for Ruger Redhawk and a Ruger 3 screw Super Blackhawk.

The bullet: Berry’s 220 grain standard plated flat point; max velocity (according the Berry’s) = 1250 fps.

Berry’s website specifies to use cast bullet data for load data.

I’m using 2400 powder.

I cannot find 220 grain cast bullet load data, but in the Lyman Pistol and Revolver Handbook (copyright 1978) it has 215 grain cast with 2400.

Starting load: 20 grains for 986 fps. (Max: 25 grains; 1310 fps.)
The bullets are plated with no cannelure and I’ve used them many times for several calibers. They’re fine at low velocities with a nominal crimp.

I’m asking the brain trust because I’m using data for 215 cast while I’ll actually be shooting 220 grain plated.

Thnx
 
44 mag

Not much for this combination.

Berger Bullets has a 220 cast bullet using Winchester powder 231 @ 9.4gr for V=1104f/s.

They have a cast bullet @ 225gr using 2400 as follows:
18.9gr=V=1200f/s
21.0gr=V=1482f/s

Good luck.
 
5gr difference in bullet weight isn't much in large caliber bullets.

In this case, its approximately 1/44 the weight of the 220gr bullet. I seriously doubt it will make any significant difference.

If you were loading a .22 CF where 5gr of bullet weight could be a 10% change, that's a different matter. With what you're using, I doubt either the gun or the powder change will notice the difference.
 
Long ago I shot a lot of 215 gr SWC's , Lyman Mold gas checked, cast of wheel weight loaded with H-110 to whatever the Hogdon book said was near max.
They shot great.
Be advised this was an OLD Hogdon load manual. Black cover. I would not quote it today. I get Hogdon online current data.

IIRC Hogdon said from the test barrel (Maybe 8 in??? and no cylinder gap leakage) they were twisting about 1800 fps. I didn't have a chrono then. I don't know what I got from my SBH. I'm sure 1800 was very optimistic.

It did seem a zippy load! We used a stout crimp and magnum primers. H-110 burned just fine for us. One of my favorite 44 Mag loads. Bonus!! It fed trouble free in the lever guns.
 
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Berry’s site says you can use jacketed load data, you just have to watch velocity.

Frequently Asked Questions

Where can I find load data for your bullets?

Load data from any load manual or website can be used. Full-metal jacketed, lead bullet, or plated bullet load data can be used as long as the following standards are adhered to:

The data contains the correct grain weight of bullet.
Berry's max recommended velocity is not exceeded. (This info is displayed on bullet boxes and product webpages.)
Standard Plate Bullets Max Velocity: 1,250 fps.
Thick-Plate Bullets (TP) Max Velocity: 1,500 fps.

Do not over-crimp the bullet. Crimping so tight that bullet deformation occurs, or plating is separated causing visible exposure of the lead core will cause tumbling, key-holing, and reduced accuracy.
 
load just like a jacketed, but keep velocity below 1250fps.

With plated bullets with no crimp groove your options are limited as far as a crimp. Lee makes a taper crimp die, as well as a collet crimp die. I would recommend the collet crimp as it will provide a firm crimp without the risk of scoring the plating and causing a core/plating separation. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/101683339?pid=781382

but you do need a decent crimp if you don't want to be pulling bullets in that gun.
 
Another reason a crimp is critical is proper ignition. Without a crimp,a primer can drive he bullet to the forcing cone , as the powder fizzles.

Some powders need heat/pressure to get lit.

It might be the OP has a BUNCH of the Berry's bullets,or for some other reason,they are THE choice. OK. Not my business.

Over the last near 50 years,I've loaded and fired a LOT of 44 Mag thru my SBH.

What worked for me is not "secret knowledge". But there ARE forks in the road.
Choices! I was fortunate to have an experienced guide.

Cast bullets are a wonderful match for revolver straight wall cartridges. As cast and lubed wheel weight hard bullets will take any h-110 or 296 published load. I found leading to be a non-issue. Your bullets diameter must suit your gun. Undersize is no good. I never found any advantage to copper plated bullets.
A general guide line is .001 over groove dia. My gun worked with .430 to .431 bullets. If you are leaking gas past undersize bullets,you likely will get leading. If your bullets seal, Well,I did not get leading with H-110 max loads.

The Old Guys like Elmer figured out mold designs that worked. No crimp groove ,IMO,means it is not a well designed revolver bullet. A crimp groove provides a space for a proper crimp to go with no crushing force necessary. A roll crimp. A roll crimp retains the bullet for ignition and to resist bullet pull.
A taper crimp is easier to crush onto the bullet (or knurled cannelure) but a taper crimp resists the bullet seating deeper during the feed of a repeater.
The crimp with a revolver needs to resist in the opposite direction. Rolling the case mouth into a molded crimp groove does not cause the problems crimping without a groove does.

I don't even know if you can buy LaserCast anymore. I'd suggest,if you can, ordering a box of 500 cast Keith Semi-Wadcutters either 215 gr or 240, in 430 or 431 dia. If not LaserCast, somebody will sell hard cast SWC bullets with a crimp groove.
A crimp groove and proper diameter will do more good than copper plating.
 
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Another point for non plated lead, cast and sized properly, you can drive them as hard as the cartridge will permit, without issues.

The makers of plated bullets generally state that max allowable velocities are in the 1200fps range I believe due to issues with plating and core separation. Proper cast bullets can go much faster than that without problems.

But, lets deal with what the OP has. Plated bullets with no crimp groove and 2400 powder.

My experience is that while 2400 doesn't mind a good or a heavy crimp at all, it doesn't need one to light properly like H110 or W296 prefers.

With an intended max velocity at 1250fps or less (per mfg recommendations) and in heavy guns like the Redhawk, it is entirely possible that a moderate crimp, which can be applied without a crimp groove, could do well enough to prevent "crimp jump". The OP will have to expirement to see how much can be applied without distorting anything, and if that is enough.

IF not, simply reduce the load (and thereby the recoil) until it is sufficient to hold the bullets in place. We are not talking about max full house loads here, those plated bullets are not built for that.
 
Thanks for the reminder HIBC!
Another reason a crimp is critical is proper ignition. Without a crimp,a primer can drive he bullet to the forcing cone, as the powder fizzles.
Click to expand...
I forgot about this VERY IMPORTANT piece in using slow powders. There must be sufficient "bullet pull" to completely ignite the powder column. A very heavy crimp is vital to accuracy and small velocity spread.
 
44 AMP said:
Another point for non plated lead, cast and sized properly, you can drive them as hard as the cartridge will permit, without issues.

The makers of plated bullets generally state that max allowable velocities are in the 1200fps range I believe due to issues with plating and core separation. Proper cast bullets can go much faster than that without problems.

But, lets deal with what the OP has. Plated bullets with no crimp groove and 2400 powder.

My experience is that while 2400 doesn't mind a good or a heavy crimp at all, it doesn't need one to light properly like H110 or W296 prefers.

With an intended max velocity at 1250fps or less (per mfg recommendations) and in heavy guns like the Redhawk, it is entirely possible that a moderate crimp, which can be applied without a crimp groove, could do well enough to prevent "crimp jump". The OP will have to expirement to see how much can be applied without distorting anything, and if that is enough.

IF not, simply reduce the load (and thereby the recoil) until it is sufficient to hold the bullets in place. We are not talking about max full house loads here, those plated bullets are not built for that.
Click to expand...

I would use a Lee FCD and use a fairly heavy crimp for 44 Magnum cartridges in a revolver at 1200 FPS. Otherwise, even in a heavy Redhawk, you risk bullets pulling out of the cartridge.
 
So what I see is you have one or two choices, well actually more but let's stick to minimal.

You can go with the taper crimp or you can seat JUST deep enough to allow for a roll crimp at the very beginning edge of the ogive. Either could work for you, but you will have to test to be sure.

Myself, I prefer just enough crimp to hold the last bullet of a full cylinder in place. I do not like crimps that appear to have the neck swaged into the side of the bullets as this usually ruins accuracy.

Even with 1600fps plus loads and 300+ grain cast out of my 454, the roll crimp is neat and smooth. I like to start off with just enough to see the lip of the case has a roll to it. Measure the last three rounds of a full cylinder, and shoot the first one, then measure the last three again. I repeat this until I'm down to the last round. That said, if I see any changes in length over say .002" during the test, I readjust adding just a smidge more crimp. It helps to put a mark on the die with a fine sharpie so you can see how much of a turn you add. Depending on your initial settings, you might only need to move around 1/8" from your match mark, maybe more, maybe less, sorta depends on the die set.

When you can shoot 5 of 6 rounds and see no more movement, repeat leaving the same last round. If it holds up to 10 previous rounds being fired you should be good.

As mentioned, the bullet really needs a cannalure for a proper crimp, however it can still work with a touch of care and or creativity. If it were me I would try the taper crimp first, then JUST over the edge of the shoulder with a roll. Almost like crimping over the leading edge of a SWC.

Hope that helps.
 
Considering the abundance of .44 caliber autoloaders :rolleyes:, I don't understand why Berry's (or anybody else) makes a plated bullet in that caliber not optimized for revolvers or tube magazine rifles.

And by that I mean without a crimp groove. Just seems dumb to me. Personally, I'd be looking to sell or trade those bullets for something better suited for your guns.

I roll crimp revolver rounds. My dies all have that feature built in, and I don't use, or need a separate crimp die. I uniform my case lengths, and my inital crimp setting is to use a factory round, and turn the seating die body down until it makes firm contact with the factory round crimp. Then I turn the die body down just a tiny bit more and load a test batch.

My test in a revolver is two cylinders worth, all fired over the same last round. If the bullet moves (jumps crimp), I add a little more crimp and repeat, until it doesn't move. For lever guns I do about a half magazine load, refill the mag, shoot half again, then check the remaing rounds, looking for any bullet movement, in or out.

I almost never use any bullets in revolver calibers that don't have crimp grooves, but I have, and if there is any kind of front shoulder on the bullet, you can use them in revolvers by crimping over that shoulder. However, doing that doesn't help much to prevent bullet setback in a tube magazine rifle.

I know you want to use what you've got, and it can be done, just be careful with those plated slugs.
 
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