Woodleigh 310gr RN 35 Whelen data

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Astocks2622

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You may have seen some of my other posts asking about the 35 Whelen. I finally bought one, with a 1:14 twist barrel built on a Mauser action.
I bought some 250gr Partitions for hunting moose, caribou, and bear, and some 310gr Woodleigh RN's to maximize the Whelen's stopping abilities. So far, the only data for the Woodleigh bullets I've found uses RL-15. I'm fine buying some RL-15, as it seems to be the go-to powder for the 35 Whelen.
Does anyone have the Woodleigh manual? Just looking for additional options to see if any of the powders I already have will work. I've got Varget, IMR 4350, Win760/h414, & 8208XBR.


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OK, Woodleigh got back to me with some data, but it's for RL 17 & H4350.
I know that H4350 & IMR 4350 are NOT the same, so I can't just substitute. However, looking at Hodgdon's data for 30-06 (no data from Hodgdon for IMR4350 in 35 Whelen) they show a fairly consistent (across 5-6 different weights) 1-2 grain difference between the two for the same bullet weight. if I reduce the load of H4350 (51-59gr) provided by Woodleigh by 3 grains, I should be in the ballpark for the IMR 4350, right? Obviously I'd start down around 49gr and work up slowly, but I wanted to run it past some of the more experienced handloaders, especially those with experience developing loads for wildcat cartridges or the like without much "book" data. I'm looking for some way to carefully substitute when there isn't book data.
Another thought I had, but not sure it's wise, would be to extrapolate for heavier weight bullets. for example, Hodgdon has data for the 35 whelen using IMR 8208XBR for projectiles from 180gr up to 250gr. they have no data whatsoever for heavier bullets. the data shows an average of a 2 grain decrease for every 25 grain increase in bullet weight. So assuming a continuing trend (I realize that it isn't linear, much like pressure increase can be exponential as you approach max) going from a 250 grain to a 310 grain should be about 4.5 gr less than the 250gr load. So if the 250 called for 49-54.3gr, I could theoretically start at 45 gr, and work up towards 50-ish, looking for pressure signs. Is this valid for working up loads where you don't have data for a certain powder or bullet weight? I'm not talking about trying to go above published data as much as create non-existent data.
I do have a chrono and know what to look for as far as pressure spikes. Let me know if I'm totally off base, or if there is another way to do this safely.
 
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Looking at various sources on Loaddata.com, I think you're going to be disappointed with 310s. Only comp I could find was a 300gr Barnes at 2200fps with a 58gr Max load of IMR4350. Compressed load. I'd stick with 250s because you can push them to 2400-2500 with medium burn powders. I've had the best luck with 4320 in my 338-06, but 4895, RL15, or 4064 will also do well. A 250 Partition will give feet of penetration, too.
 
"...maximize the Whelen's stopping abilities..." A 310 grain bullet won't do that any better than a 250. There's no such thing as "stopping ability" anyway.
Woodleigh bullets come from Australia. Even Australian made powders(you probably can't get anyway) don't go higher than 250's. Woodleigh themselves might. No online data, but Midway and Huntingtons are their U.S. distributors. Midway wants $34.99 with free shipping for the Woodleigh book. One reviewer says, "...mostly only Vihtavuori powders." though.
Hodgdon's data for 30-06 isn't a substitute for .35 Whelen data.
There's one 310 grain load using H380 on Reloaders Nest.
In most cases, a total lack of data for a particular bullet weight and powder is because the powder is either not a suitable burn rate or it just hasn't been tested. Try contacting Hodgdon and asking if they have any.
"...300gr Barnes..." It a solid copper bullet?
 
I checked that load from Reloaders Nest on QL, and it says that fellow is 10 ksi over pressure. For copyright reasons, I'm not going to post a QL load, but H4350 and IMR-4350 are not that far apart. I would not substitute one for the other, but back off a few grains and work up, you'll be OK. Note that data I got from Woodleigh for their 6.5 160 was pretty aggressive. Start low and sneak up on it.
 
Thanks, I did email Hodgdon and am waiting for a response. I realize that I can't use 30-06 data for the 35 Whelen. Mostly I was using it to compare IMR 4350 to H4350, to see what correlation they had to each other. I got data from Woodleigh, it just wasn't for powders I already have, and before I went out and bought a powder special for this load, I wanted to see if there is a safe way to extrapolate data.
As far as the heavy Woodleigh vs the 250 Partition, I was looking for a heavy RN for straight line penetration, much like the heavy solids as used for dangerous game hunts in Africa. The same reason I went with a 1-6x scope on the rifle instead of a 3-9 or 4-12. I figured a 310gr bullet at 2200 was pretty good medicine for an angry bear. You'd stick with a faster, lighter bullet though?

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ligonierbill said:
I checked that load from Reloaders Nest on QL, and it says that fellow is 10 ksi over pressure. For copyright reasons, I'm not going to post a QL load, but H4350 and IMR-4350 are not that far apart. I would not substitute one for the other, but back off a few grains and work up, you'll be OK. Note that data I got from Woodleigh for their 6.5 160 was pretty aggressive. Start low and sneak up on it.
Click to expand...
Thanks. How about the 8208XBR idea? Is that totally out to lunch, or might it just be that the powder is new enough and the Whelen odd enough that no one has done this yet? Where does QL predict a 50gr charge to be concerning pressure? As you advised, all of this would be started low and very slowly worked up.

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Re 8208XBR, fuhgetaboutit. Too fast. The Alliant powders should work well. As you said, Re-15 is a Whelen standard. But there is a reason Woodleigh is suggesting Re-17. I don't load for the Whelen, but other not-very-overbore rounds like 8x57, 8mm-06, and 9.3x62 really like it. It's worth buying a can to try. I mean, how much did you pay for those Aussie bullets? When I look at their prices, I learn a little Australian (Crikey!). I think you'll do well with those big slugs.
 
They were a bit more than the partitions, but not that much more (about $0.20/bullet more). My intention is to find a decent load, mage sure it shoots POA at 50 & under, and then keep 20 around for defensive use. It's definitely NOT a paper puncher...
Thanks again for the help. I thought that maybe because there was good data for everything from 180-250, that 8208XBR might do well for me too. I'll look into the 4350's and RL17.

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Well, I load for the .35 Whelen and my go to load for anything is the 225 gr. Barnes TSX. I've only used the load for elk but not one single bullet has been recovered. One elk was a shallow angling shot and the bullet through about three and a half feet of elk. Probably still going too. Internal damage was quite massive. The elk at impact dropped like a rock, DRT. Four other elk shot with the load were either DRT or so hard hit they could not go anywhere. I load the bullet to 2710 FPS from a custom Mauser with 1 in 14" twist. I would have no qualms taking on anything on the North American continent with that load and probably a good deal of African game as well. Powder of choice is Re15. Accuracy from my rifle runs .50 to .75" if I do my part.

My thoughts one using Re17 with that 310 gr. bullet would be as it's a bit slower burning than Re15, it just might give a bit more speed.

If I did not have any H4350 but did have a good supply of IMR 4350, then I'd just use the starting load for the H4350 and carefully work up.

I have Canadian friends who use the .35 Whelen expressly for moose with the 250 gr. Speer Hot Core and use the same load for Grizzly Bear when lucky enough to draw tags.

Paul B.
 
One of the things I remember about using RL-17 a few years back is that it tends to do better with heavy-for-caliber bullets so using that with those massive 310gr bullets might work out for you.
 
I have an NOE 360-310 "Thumper" bullet mold here (310 gr solid / 295 gr HP), that I collected some data for last year for my .35 Whelen.
If I manage to dig it up in the next few weeks, I'll share what I've got.

There's also some data on the NOE forum, from a fellow running full power loads behind the same 310 gr Thumper with 4831, 4350, and maybe more powders. .35 Thumper Testing
 
Hodgdon manual 26 1992 has loading data for the 35 Whelen and they have data for 300gr bullet.

Start load 54gr/760 @ 2060fps Max 57gr/760 @ 2194fps

Modern Reloading 2nd Edition 2003 also has some loading data for 300gr Barnes.

Ackley book has data for 35 Whelen as it was Wildcat at one time.

Hodgon has data for R-15 with 300gr bullet no loads using H-4350 or IMR-4350

I shoot 35 WhelenAI.
 
old roper said:
Hodgdon manual 26 1992 has loading data for the 35 Whelen and they have data for 300gr bullet.

Start load 54gr/760 @ 2060fps Max 57gr/760 @ 2194fps

Modern Reloading 2nd Edition 2003 also has some loading data for 300gr Barnes.

Ackley book has data for 35 Whelen as it was Wildcat at one time.

Hodgon has data for R-15 with 300gr bullet no loads using H-4350 or IMR-4350

I shoot 35 WhelenAI.
Click to expand...
Where are you finding Hodgdon data for 300 gr bullets? Their website maxes out at 250.

Nevermind, in a 1992 manual. Got it. Would you be willing to take a picture or scan of those pages and email them to me?


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