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Winchester primers measure undersize.
- Thread starter Savage99
- Start date
condor bravo
New member
Yes have noticed the same thing with Winchester primers and always use CCI primers that are slightly larger in diameter.
???? Not sure what you are referring to. I don't think I've seen the the term "un plated" when talking about primers. What do you consider to be a plated primer? I use a hand primer so I feel how tight or loose very round is. Yes, you can make some generalities about certain brands (brass or primers) being loose or tight but as I load range pickup I can guarantee you nothing can be for sure.
NoSecondBest
New member
What are the specs on primers for min/max? Is your gage calibrated? Specs on primer pockets also? I don't think your observations are valid. I don't believe that Win or any other company is releasing primers that are out of spec. At least that's my belief based on almost fifty years of reloading hundreds of thousands of rounds of various calibers of ammo. The only time I ever found "undersized" primers was when I was reloading shotgun shells and tried to use any brand of primer in a case where a Fiocchi primer had been first. That may have been to diameter or hardness of the Fiocchi primer stretching the pocket. In that case, I just used Fiocchi primers to reload with.
The OP is referring to the current production runs of Winchester primers that were created as a cost saving measure and they remain the brass color.
The Winchester primers of yester year were nickel plated and a silver color.
So, he is correct in his summation that the plated primers were approximately 0.0005" larger in diameter.
The Winchester primers of yester year were nickel plated and a silver color.
So, he is correct in his summation that the plated primers were approximately 0.0005" larger in diameter.
I have some new brass finish Winchester large rifle magnum primers that seem to be right at .210. A 15 year-old box of the same product (bright finish) I would put at .2102. Other 15 year old lrm primers are: Federal .2105; CCI .211; and Federal lr .2106. A box of CCI from 25 or 30 years ago is .2102. The ten-thou reading is eyeballed between hash marks on RCBS brand dial calipers, but the jaws and the mechanism are tight and I rate the instrument as adequate for the task. I haven't fired any of the new Winchesters yet but cartridges have been loaded and they seemed to fit the pockets just as snugly as normal. I believe all primers under discussion are suitable.
In consideration of the SAAMI spec I revisited my measurements. I may have introduced about .0005 crush with my original technique, putting everything in spec. With a primer sitting on the fingertip, it will now pass freely the length of the jaws. I suggest that measuring primers down to the .0001 is almost impossible outside of a laboratory.
But without a doubt, the brass finish Winchesters are the smallest ones I have. I'll let everyone know if there is any leakage, and you won't be the only ones to hear about it either.
But without a doubt, the brass finish Winchesters are the smallest ones I have. I'll let everyone know if there is any leakage, and you won't be the only ones to hear about it either.
Gary Wells
New member
Is anybody sure that today.s current Win primers are bare brass and not cadium plated?
I'm just curious and not passing judgement.
I'm just curious and not passing judgement.
FWIW, according to your measurements, the Win primers are .0009” under SAAMI minimum diameter, but the Federals are also under, by .0004”. Do you have a gage block or some standard that you can verify your mic with?
You may calibrate your mike on Jo blocks, but the pressure you might be using on the primer which can be compressed easily could give a false reading. Your mike is either friction or clicks and will only relate to solid objects as the gage block. As long as the primer stays in, even though a light press fit, there will be no problem...........I just saw you addressed this problem and realize the crush of the measurement. The only way to measure something like this is to use a drop indicator or test indicator on a stand set to a gage block.
I remembered I have a few CCI large rifle primers marked Bench Rest, supposedly selected from lots demonstrating great consistency. I don't know if that refers to dimensional consistency or just flame power, but I checked them and got about .2102, and that is with the easy-pass method, where the primer can just slide down the jaws without binding. A Federal large pistol primer, nearly new, showed .2105, the biggest yet. I think this means lot to lot variation can run about .001, not importance as all primers must be pushed into the pockets.
William T. Watts
New member
out of spec primers
I don't happen to have any W-W/Winchester primers but I do have CCI & Federal LR & LRM primers from years 2010 - 2013, nothing measures less than .2108, most measure a full .211. Primers that measure less than .210 will seat easier and many will notice the difference, I know there is a demand for reloading components at this time that the manufactures may be cutting corners to supply what we need.. FWIW if you have access to a 1 inch micrometer it might be a good idea to buy a box of 100 primers and check a few to insure they are within specs before buying several boxes of a 1000 and spending money on primers your not happy with.. I normally use a Fowler or Starrett micrometer not a caliper when measuring small items!! William
I don't happen to have any W-W/Winchester primers but I do have CCI & Federal LR & LRM primers from years 2010 - 2013, nothing measures less than .2108, most measure a full .211. Primers that measure less than .210 will seat easier and many will notice the difference, I know there is a demand for reloading components at this time that the manufactures may be cutting corners to supply what we need.. FWIW if you have access to a 1 inch micrometer it might be a good idea to buy a box of 100 primers and check a few to insure they are within specs before buying several boxes of a 1000 and spending money on primers your not happy with.. I normally use a Fowler or Starrett micrometer not a caliper when measuring small items!! William
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Winchester still nickel plates their pistol primers. The rifle primers used to be nickel plated, but I heard that was dropped because of complaints they got about lack of primer sensitivity. Not plating makes the brass less hard. But now they get complaints they are too sensitive and slamfire easily in gas guns with floating firing pins.
Military primers are never nickel plated.
The specs I have are Remington:
Large primer pocket diameter 0.2090 ±0.0004"
Large primer diameter 0.2100 to 0.2115".
Zero your micrometer, then set it to an actual 0.2100" (reading plus zero offset) and use the thumb lock to fix it there. Then, rather than risk deforming the primers, see if they will slip freely between the jaws or not? If so, you would seem to have a defective lot and I would contact Winchester about it. If not, however, it is also possible to have defective brass, and I would double-check with pin gauges or with small hole transfer gauges, that they are the size they are supposed to be. I've bought brass before that had no flash holes punched. Other defects are always possible. There exists a primer pocket tightening tool.
Military primers are never nickel plated.
The specs I have are Remington:
Large primer pocket diameter 0.2090 ±0.0004"
Large primer diameter 0.2100 to 0.2115".
Zero your micrometer, then set it to an actual 0.2100" (reading plus zero offset) and use the thumb lock to fix it there. Then, rather than risk deforming the primers, see if they will slip freely between the jaws or not? If so, you would seem to have a defective lot and I would contact Winchester about it. If not, however, it is also possible to have defective brass, and I would double-check with pin gauges or with small hole transfer gauges, that they are the size they are supposed to be. I've bought brass before that had no flash holes punched. Other defects are always possible. There exists a primer pocket tightening tool.
Regardless of all the good answers about primer diameters, .0009" isn't very much (and if your mics are really accurate the primers could measure nearly that much difference on a cold day vs. a hot day). If there's a problem with the primers' fit (or "feel" while being seated), I'd look elsewhere. A .0009" interference fit, coupled with all the mechanical advantage of a priming tool or press, would not be noticable...