"Winchester never had any luck with autos"
- Thread starter wacki
- Start date
Winchester's 1st attempt was the Model 1911, also known as the "widowmaker". It is awkward to use, unreliable, and not very safe. I own one and have shot it but always cringe a little. In their defense it had to be designed around several of the Browning A5 patents.
2nd attempt was the Model 40. Discontinued after a couple of years due to poor reliability.
3rd attempt is the Model 50 which is a blowback design and actually is a decent shotgun, though a pain to clean.
Maybe it is all just John Browning's curse for turning down the A5.
I think the Super X2 is just a renamed Gold Hunter but am not sure about that.
2nd attempt was the Model 40. Discontinued after a couple of years due to poor reliability.
3rd attempt is the Model 50 which is a blowback design and actually is a decent shotgun, though a pain to clean.
Maybe it is all just John Browning's curse for turning down the A5.
I think the Super X2 is just a renamed Gold Hunter but am not sure about that.
The Winchester X2/X3 are nothing more than a Browning Gold. The X2 has a high rib and does not have the gold writing and magazine cutoff.
The magazine cutoff comes in handy when duck and goose hunting.
When you compare the two, the features, and price difference, many choose the Browing Gold
Frankly, I would pay the $75 more and get the Browning.
The magazine cutoff comes in handy when duck and goose hunting.
When you compare the two, the features, and price difference, many choose the Browing Gold
Frankly, I would pay the $75 more and get the Browning.
I see the SX-1 is getting no respect. Tsk.
I agree, the Browning Gold is nothing more than a variation of the Winchester SX-2. They should have called them both FN, but most Americans can't pronouce Fabrique Nationale.
Some folks say the Gold guns have a little better fit & finish on the metal & wood, but my SX-2 Shadowgrass is well finished - and plastic. I prefer the high rib and didn't have any real use for the mag cutoff or speedload feature. Used but like new for only a little more than $700. I wouldn't have turned down a similar Browning at that price either.
John
I agree, the Browning Gold is nothing more than a variation of the Winchester SX-2. They should have called them both FN, but most Americans can't pronouce Fabrique Nationale.
Some folks say the Gold guns have a little better fit & finish on the metal & wood, but my SX-2 Shadowgrass is well finished - and plastic. I prefer the high rib and didn't have any real use for the mag cutoff or speedload feature. Used but like new for only a little more than $700. I wouldn't have turned down a similar Browning at that price either.
John
I am not the only one with a SX1 that proved totally reliable.
Machined and crafted - not stamped out.
For instance I have one with over 200,000 rds I personally put thru it, and it still runs flawlessly.
Bob Brister mentioned in his book - SX1 was the most reliable semi auto he tested in blowing sand, rain, snow , mud, hot, freezing temps. He was correct, I and others have proved it by doing so with this gun.
1400 is another that gets no respect. This one is a stamped gun - as is the Rem 1100.
1400 is THE Softest shooting semi shotgun. Due to its gas system - it can only hold a total of 3 shells . Not a problem for most folks - as Migratory Game Laws limit guns to no more than 3 shells, experienced ethical hunters never took more than 2 shots at Waterfowl, quail or doves ...etc, anyway.
Even game such as rabbit, and squirrel, one shot should do it, a second was for a cripple and the 3rd shot was taken only by an inexperienced , or unethical hunter.
Except if a snake showed up and about to bite the hunting dawg...then that was defensive use.
On a Clay field, one never was allowed to load more than 2 shells anyway - rare exceptions for special games like triples or flushes - still special needs.
Most folks using other guns with gun capacities of 5 - left the plug in all the time - even for HD.
Only folks that did not back then were LEO and Military.
SX1 came out in '74, about that time folks wanted - or started wanting "more for the money" , like not paying for someone to pump their gas in hopes they would save a penny on gas that IIRC was 49 cents a gallon if they "self served".
Remington 1100 was a stamped out gun, that sold for less - that actually worked - and is still working better than many newer designs.
The other semi was the Beretta 303, and Brownings version the B-80. Stay away from these - only us older experienced shooters appreciate these *grin*
I saw many folks buy the 11-87 , at that time under the high round of competition the 11-87 did not hold up. The 1100 did, does, and will.
I won a tourney with my SX1. The fellow got all distracted. His 11-87 was acting up, in fact used his other 11-87 in the shoot off. Just he and I , and into the 2 nd box and he totally got bumfuzzled with his gun and - I offered him the chance to shoot my gun, the SX1. I was serious, we were shooting for the big prize, still - I was having fun and respected the guy.
He declined and I won, his mental game totally rattled.
He went to SX1s after that tourney. Later on got into 3 gun and used SX1s
Winchester back in day, had THE guns. Custom Shop of Win did breath taking work.
SX1s are proven, and if you ever see a Field one, or handle it you can feel the difference. Then handle a Target grade, maybe even a 2 bbl set [trap, skeet bbls] , Shoulder a Slug barrel on one...but get ready to be floored with a Custom Shop SX1...anything Custom Shop of that time.
Fellow of whom I forget his name that did the SX1 did NOT want to use a "O" ring. Powers that be said the Boys in Green had one in that gun - put one in the SX1.
Same fellow had a hand in the SX2 and Gold. When asked to take on / be part of this ...
"Why re invent the wheel, the SX1 is proven, from Brister, to South American Dove Fields, to other countries".
--
Mentor of mine now passed - often went to shoot doves, he and his group would shoot enough doves to fill a large backyard in the ground swimming pool. His SX1 never failed, other guns, even the newer ones folks have to have, and even pumps broke down. He did this trip more than once.
As he was dying - we visited, and Winchester was spoke of. He was sad about Winchester and some business decisons - and warned about folks wanting to buy for price and not quality. He was concerned folks would "accept " inferior offering by gun mfgs.
"Always been a Winchester man, the '97, 12, 101, 21, 23, SX1, 1400, in shotguns. Model 70 94, 53, 37...in rifles.
Reminton had better not screw up the 870 and 1100 by listening to lawyers and bean counters- and the public needs to shut up and realize you have to pay for quality so quality is continued."
He died before the J hook safety on Rem guns - I know he was cussing up a storm.
Folks do not know often of what they speak - new folks don't know, older folks tired of trying to talk sense to them - and playing stupid and getting steals on deals in OLDer well made guns so folks can get the newest and latest greatest Team SEEL gun.
Sometime it is only about making sales and getting a commisson on the gun to push that week.
The truth is out there - just like anything else - you gotta know where to find it and listen.
anyone have a link for the SX1?
http://www.winchesterguns.com/prodinfo/catalog/index.asp
I don't see it
http://www.winchesterguns.com/prodinfo/catalog/index.asp
I don't see it
The X1 is a Forever gun. One correspondent has 150K plus through his sans breakdowns. He has had it gone over a couple times and parts replaced.
The 1400 was a decent auto that butted heads with the Mighty 1100. It also replaced the X1, which enraged lots of potential owners like the 1200 did for the Model 12 fans.
Winchester had had spotty success with their autos. Some of that was not deserved.
The 1400 was a decent auto that butted heads with the Mighty 1100. It also replaced the X1, which enraged lots of potential owners like the 1200 did for the Model 12 fans.
Winchester had had spotty success with their autos. Some of that was not deserved.
browning or otherwise, the sx2's a solid platform. the super-mag's manual says it might not cycle with dove loads, but mine's yet to get snarled on anything i've fed it. there was a $100 rebate when i got mine too, probably the most bang for my buck i could've come up with. don't think i could've asked for more.
"The SX-1 is no longer made.
You can however find them at gunshows, and internet auction sites."
In more than 30 years I've only seen one at a huge local gun shop and I bought it. While I was negotiating with the manager for a better price I said I'd never seen one in there before and he replied that they have a customer who collects them and when one comes in they call him. He wasn't interested in this one because he had enough field models and this one wasn't 99 or 100% - it had a few dings on the forearm.
John
You can however find them at gunshows, and internet auction sites."
In more than 30 years I've only seen one at a huge local gun shop and I bought it. While I was negotiating with the manager for a better price I said I'd never seen one in there before and he replied that they have a customer who collects them and when one comes in they call him. He wasn't interested in this one because he had enough field models and this one wasn't 99 or 100% - it had a few dings on the forearm.
John
The SX2 is a great auto.
I never see SX1s, either, but happened to run across one in a shop the other day. It was not in great condition (had rust spots on the receiver), but I was a little surprised to see one.
Mine (SX1) is in superb condition, except for the buffer - it was crumbled when I got it. (I need to order a couple from Nu-Line.)
It's strange (in a good way) taking an SX1 apart for the first time and seeing all machined parts. The stamped parts work fine in an 870, but it's still nice to see some "old world" craftsmanship. It's kind of like the Model 12 of the semi-auto shotgun world.
I never see SX1s, either, but happened to run across one in a shop the other day. It was not in great condition (had rust spots on the receiver), but I was a little surprised to see one.
Mine (SX1) is in superb condition, except for the buffer - it was crumbled when I got it. (I need to order a couple from Nu-Line.)
It's strange (in a good way) taking an SX1 apart for the first time and seeing all machined parts. The stamped parts work fine in an 870, but it's still nice to see some "old world" craftsmanship. It's kind of like the Model 12 of the semi-auto shotgun world.