Winchester Classic Model 70 in 375 H&H

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abruzzi

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Gun Test Magazine for September 2000 pans the Winchester Model 70 Safari Express with a flat out "DO NOT BUY" because of alleged problems with a failure to feed in rapid fire. GT claimed that the second or third round reliably fed only half the time as the bullet nose jammed against the rear of the barrel near the extractor cutout.

Has anyone else heard of or experienced this problem? Any other comments generally on the "Classic" Model 70 with the resurrected "pre-64" extractor.

I have one of these -- actually a two year old, Classic in the Super Express which has some superficial differences -- on a three day approval. Am trying to figure out whether I should send this back.

I have read the lengthy, and outstanding, Rem 700 v. Win Model 70 thread which discusses both rifles strengths and weaknesses. Don't recall any mention of this failure to feed problem, but plainly it's important.

Any comments also on the quality of the reviews from Gun Tests. This is the first issue I received, and it arrived the same day as the Model 70. Go figure.
 
Abruzzi. I'm not sure I'd disqualify a rifle based on a report involving only one example. If the one you have feeds well with no problems, go for it.
Although Winchester says on their web page that they stand behind their product, I have my doubts. I have a Model 70 Featherweight that shoots shotgun patterns. When I e-mailed the big "W", their attitude was TS. Take it to a gunsmith. Something tells me that this was the last Model 70 I'll ever buy, new or used.
Paul B.
 
How many types of ammo did GT use? Did it happen with only one type, or with all?

With all, it COULD indicate a problem in design.

But, as Paul noted, this could simply be a problem with that particular rifle.

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Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
 
Gun Tests is a pretty good bunch of people from what I have seen. They are probably right.
Along these same lines, I have a Model 70 Classic Compact in 308 Win. that consistantly fails to feed the last (4th) round. In my opoinion, this is inexcusable and calls into question Winchester's integrity when it designs and puts out thes rifles. Its also inaccurate.
I am keeping mine, as I bought it mainly for the action and I have been told it can be fixed.
You need make up some dummy rounds or buy some from Brownells to test out this rifle before you buy, unless the price is just too good. Since you have it on a three day approval, you should send it back and ask for more time to check out the function of this rifle or get an understanding from the owner that it will be taken back if it fails your function test.
I would worry about this. Perhaps the owner is trying to dump it because of the above reason, or perhaps it is inaccurate.
I buy this type of arm with no illusions, just for the action because I know that quality control and craftsmanship do not exist on this cheaper class of rifle. A really good and new 375 H&H would cost you an arm and a leg.
 
Several gunsmiths really stand by the Winchester Classics. David Miller builds his superlative rifles on this action and the smiths at Montana Rifleman also highly recommend this gun as a hunting arm. Of course, these are highly skilled craftsmen and can work out the kinks in any firearm...

With that being said, it is possible that some out of the many thousands of Classics Winchester pumped out of the mills are less than satisfactory. And those of us on this forum usually demand a little more than a straight up factory rifle...

Definitely test the action with dummy rounds and/or go out and run a box of soft points through it to see if it feeds or jams when the action is cycled quickly. The GunTest rifle may not have been broken in yet or had a burr or something minor-- (I have not read the article either).

Most wood stock Winchester Classics are pressure bedded at the forearm and even the recoil lug is bedded in some rifles with what looks to be hot melt glue. Tear this junk out, get some Acraglass and do it right with a free floating barrel. Remember the .308s have 1x12" twists and might favor different loads than other rifles...

Lastly, if it is a good bargain, you can pick it up and then have it worked over by a smith and still save money-- as the man said, it's tough to find a good reliable .375
 
I have Win M70 Super Express .375H&H , vintage 1986, that is utterly reliable,quite accurate and unmodified. I have taken more big game with it than anything else I own. That having been said, I would look long and hard at the CZ Safari in .375. Cost here in PA is around $650. A friend bought one and it is outstanding.
 
Thanks to each of your for your replies. I thought it was appropriate for me to report what I've decided, and how.

I have returned the gun for my money -- $600. That was an attractive price, it lists for $1,000+, but I bought it used for the express purpose of being able, if necessary, to sell it with a minimal hickey. In short, I was buying some peace of mind. The GT article destroyed that.

I did shoot the gun and ran a bunch of rounds through it just cycling quickly to test the jamming issue. It didn't jam, although on one of about 50 cycles it hung/hesitated ever so slightly, not fully like the GT article said.

It may be that this rifle would have performed perfectly for me, but .... And it is that but that I didn't want to deal with. I also didn't want to get into the business of floating the barrel, but I am glad to know that is so feasible. (What should somebody expect to pay for that???)

I was particularly struck by the GT article because they are published by the same folks that put out Practical Sailor, the consumers reports equivalent of the sailing business. I have subscribed to them for years and found their advice to be flawless.

I will probably buy a SAKO. I have a Hunter Model in 270 Win and it is outstanding in every way. I have a bead on a pre-Garcia SAKO in 375. Or I may go with the new model 75 which got a thumbs up from GT, though not as clear a thumbs up as the top of the line Ruger.

Anyway, thought I should share the result if I am going to burden you with the decision making process. Thanks again.

PS - If anybody wants a copy of the GT article, send me your fax number.
 
Hello. I have a controlled round feed Winchester M70 "classic" in .416 Remington and it feeds flawlessly. Probably at least one came off the line that did not. If you like this model and want one in .375 H&H, buy it. It will most likely feed and would likely be easily remedied if it didn't. Also, the fellow mentioning CZ/BRNO rifles was on target in my view. These are great guns as well. Best.
 
DeBee. Regarding your comment on .308 Model 70's with the 1 in 12 inch twist barrels. I have two of these rifles, one a pre-64 Featherweight, and a Ranger Youth Model that I restocked in a ramline stock. Both rifles will shoot any weight bullet well, from 100 nr. Speer plinkers to Sierra's 220 gr. RN monster mashers. The pre-64 does from .75 to one inch with the 220's and the Ranger does a constant 3/8's inch with the 220's. That's something the "egg-spurts" in the gun rags say is impossible. T'aint so. I also have a custon Mauser 30-06 with a 1 in 12 twist barrel. It too runs slightly under MOA with 220 gr. bullets.
If that fellows .308 is shooting poorly, I seriously doubt that the barrel's twist rate is the cause.
Paul B.
 
The Sako is a fine choice. The gun is on the light side. It needs a Decellerator pad. My wife uses one that MacMillan stocked for her.
Much depends on how much you are going to shoot it. I replaced the magazine box on hers at about 300 rounds. FMJ ammo batters the front of the box in recoil and it will impede feeding with the divots it creates. I soldered a piece of sheet steel to the front of the new one outside the box and all has been well ever since. I would urge you to look hard at the Czech .375. Rob
 
While I think that Gun Tests is very factual with their reports, they have a horrible habit of buying one sample and smearing an entire line.

I dropped my subscription as I could not rely on their generalizations.

I have three M70's with no failures of any kind. Seems to me that my experiance vastly outweighs their one example.

Giz
 
Abruzzi: I have to agree with Gizmo99. The Model 70 became known as "the rifleman's rifle" by being accurate and reliable. The long extractor cartridge handling was specifically designed for battlefield reliability, ie (the Mauser). If the Gun Test tabloid found a problem they should also have figured out the reason or maybe they personally just didn't like the Winchester.

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NRA Life Member
 
I'll echo what others have said. Take a hard look at the CZ rifle for a good 375. The Winchester is also a good rifle but you might as well look at the CZ and see if it might fit your needs better.
 
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