Winchester 9 mm Nato ammo?

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Pthfndr

New member
A friend picked this up for me at a gun show last weekend. Wasn't exactly what I wanted but he thought all 9 mm was the same. It's 124 gr. FMJ. Nato. Winchesters site list it but does not give any of the specs like they do for everything else(??). The box says it is loaded to higher than industry standards. Any one used this or know anything about it? I planned on using it in my Beretta 92FS.

Additional info: The box says Q4318, the shell has the NATO stamp on the head.

[This message has been edited by Pthfndr (edited May 24, 2000).]
 
Is M882 on the box? M882 (I think that is the number) is the U.S. Gov't spec for 9mm. If it is M882, it should not be a problem because it is what the military purchases.
 
If what you have is really M882, and it probably is, you have a +P+ 9mm round. These fellows are loaded to a velocity of about 1200fps. They are screamers. Not bad ammo either.


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Joe Portale
Tucson, Arizona Territory

True Gun Control: Weaver or Isosceles.
 
I chronographed some US "military" 9mm ammo my friend from CG gave me and from my Beretta 92FS and it was 1,170-1,210 fps. The recoil was about same ans S&B 9mm ammo. I'm not sure if it was the "real" military ammo or not but the case head had Federal stamping on it. Would the real military ammo have Federal case head?
 
M882 NATO spec (124 grain projectile) velocity is 1230 fps +/- 49 when tested @ 63-66F, measured at a point 52 ft from the muzzle. Average velocity shall not vary more than 98 fps when tested between -61 and -68F, and at +122 to 129F. Standard deviation at all temperature shall not exceed 29 fps. Another interesting note is that the crimp shall be sufficient to resist 75lbs compression force and maintain an average OAL of 1.140 and not be shorter than 1.125.
Weapons to be utilized in the above tests (2 each) are the M9 (Berreta 92FS), Browning High Power, Walther P-38, C1 Subgun, Model 4 Subgun, and the model 1949 subgun. Tree Rat.
 
I have heard that the NATO ammo has somewhat hard primers, and that not all guns strike them hard enough to fire.

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There are two types of men: those with guns, and those at their mercy.
 
The military ammo has been made by Win and Fed, maybe others? Pressure can go up to 42K psi on the Win NATO stuff, US M882 is usually lower, max case mouth pressure of 36,250 psi (Same as SAAMI +P). Mid case pressure can be much higher though.

Bullets from 112-124 grains. Get about 1180 fps from the Win NAT0 stuff in most pistols w the 124 bullet.

There is US 9mm military ammo loaded to higher pressure intended for use in smgs only too, not the M9/M11 pistols. This may be the hard primer stuff you are referring to? Some NATO ammo is also intended for smgs only, and is also loaded to higher pressure with harder primers (but not always). You can shoot it in pistols, but it is harder on em.

9mm NATO load data
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9mm NATO A detailed list from TM 43-0001-27 "Army Ammunition Data Sheets
Small Caliber Ammuntion"

Cartridge, 9mm, Ball

Use:

Modified M3 Submachine Gun or commercial weapons (The use in M9 pistolis not
authorized.)The cartridge is designed for use against personnel.

Description:

BALL.

Weight - 182 grains
Length - 1.169 inches
Primer - Percussion
Propellant - Commercial
Charge - Meet ballistic requirements
Projectile Weight - 115 grains
Chamber Pressure - 38,500 psi avg., 43,000 psi maximum
Velocity - 1125 fps, 15 feet from muzzle


Cartridge, 9mm, Ball, NATO, M882

Use:

M9 pistol.The cartridge is designed for use against personnel. Cartridge can
also be used in the following nonstandard weapons:

HK P7 series
Walther P38
FN P35
HK MP 5 and MP5SD SMG's
IMI Uzi
Berettea M12
FFVM45/45B
Madsen M50
CZ M23
Sten MKII and Sterling 12A3 SMG's

Description:

BALL. Identified by a plain bullet tip.

Weight - 179 grains
Length - 1.165 inches
Primer - Percussion
Propellant - HPC 6
Charge - 6 grains
Projectile Weight - 112 grains
Chamber Pressure - 31,175 psi avg., 36,250 psi maximum
Velocity - 1263fps, 15 feet from muzzle

Other pistol loads include:

M905 High Pressure Test. (Identified by a timmed cartridge case and HPT on
headstamp. WARNING! These loads are in excess of 50,000 psi when fired.)

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[This message has been edited by BrokenArrow (edited May 24, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by BrokenArrow (edited May 24, 2000).]
 
I bought a case of 1000 of this too, got about 200 rounds left. This stuff is awesome! The kick feels like you're shooting .40 (through my 2.6 lb. M9 even), it's accurate and hasn't jammed once in 800 rounds. If I had to load with FMJ for defense or stockpile ammo it would be this stuff.
 
From what I understand, some of the European NATO rounds should be averaging 1299 fps.

I doubt whether an American Corp - Winchester/Olin - is selling their "NATO" rounds within 50 fps of the European version.

But a lot of the South African and Hungarian ammo is quite hot and cheap and clean.

There is your deal!

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The Seattle SharpShooter
 
Pthfndr,
I have a case of the same ammo from Winchester I bought at a show myself. The brass has the NATO headstamp but it doesn't have any markings on the box of M882. So far it has been accurate and reliable through a Glock. It was tough to pass up at $140/1000.
 
The Win NATO ammo and M882 are not necessarily the same thing. NATO can be loaded to higher pressure than the M882. M882 ammo has been contracted to Fed and Win, and both make ammo for foreign sales.

The NATO headstamp/cross in a circle says it meets quality control specs for material and manufacturing, etc, not necassarily that it is hot and/or fast. I have fired NATO ammo that did as low as 1100 fps. Or as hot as 1350.

There is mil-spec ammo out there that is very high pressure that isn't very fast, and vice versa.

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[This message has been edited by BrokenArrow (edited May 27, 2000).]
 
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