Winchester 1897 question

C

catd69u

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I have a very old Winchester 97 that is a solid frame, not takedown. It has a 30 inch barrel. I bought a 20 inch barrel that is also from a solid frame gun, and is marked cyl. I would like to swap barrels. Can somebody here tell me what I'm getting into if I try to swap them? Thanks in advance.........
Barry
 
The first thing you would do is destroy any collector interest and value the original gun has. If the gun is in such poor condition that that doesn't matter, or if it doesn't matter to you, then you can probably remove the old barrel and install the new one with only the normal fitting headaches.

On old guns, though, it is often very difficult to remove barrels due to rust and corrosion. On a shotgun, with its relatively thin receiver and barrel, the chances of doing damage to the old barrel (which might not matter) and/or the receiver is very high.

Frankly, as a gunsmith, I would not attempt that job unless I got a signed and notarized statement releasing me from any and all liability for anything that happens to the gun.

I suggest that if you want a short barrel '97, you buy one of the repros and cut the barrel to any legal length you want.

Jim
 
Thanks Jim, that's what I wanted to know. This old gun is an early one, according to the serial# it was made in the year 1897. It doesn't have any blueing left at all, and probably isn't worth a whole lot. But I still don't want to destroy it, so I will most likely leave it alone.
Barry
 
In 1934 the NFA was passed and shotgun barrels had to be 18".
A 4 masted schooner, the CS Holmes, with a home port of Seattle had sawed off shotguns for Seattle longshoremen dock strikes that ended in 1934.
The CS Holmes was commandeered by the US Navy and sunk in WWII.
My aunt married John Backland, former captain and owner of the C.S. Holmes ~ 1951.
In 1959 Backland gave a Win1897 to my father for Christmas.
He took it to Warshall's Sporting Goods in Seattle where they rebarreled the shotgun with a full length full choke barrel.
In 1963 I was 12 years old, fell down while dove hunting and got the muzzle plugged with dirt. When I next fired, that 1897 was short again.

My father had a poly choke put on for me.
My youngest brother got the shotgun.

For a cost of next to nothing, I found two 1897 basket case shotguns with enough good parts to make one good shotgun.
I got the AGI video on 1897s. There are ~ 100 parts in an 1897. That is double the average gun.
This is an excellent video.

In 2012 I inherited my childhood 97 from the C.S. Holmes. [I had arranged for my brother to get a different and otherwise minty sawed off 97 from the CS Holmes] So I have two short 97s now.

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Thanks, Clark, for the neat story.
We need more of them - personal stories that is.
I once had the Marlin version, but foolishly let someone talk me out of it.
 
I inherited two Winchester 1897 shotguns - may dad's and my grandfather's. I stupidly sold my dad's but still have my grandfather's. The gun has almost no blueing left on it. The trigger and hammer seem very light. It is now a safe queen with many memories. Oh, and the barrels could be removed with an 180 degree rotation (if I remember correctly.)
 
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Just to clarify. The Winchester 1897 was made in two versions, the takedown version and the solid frame version. In the solid frame type, which the OP asked about, the barrel screws directly into the receiver and can be removed only with a barrel vise and appropriate wrench. Using incorrect tools or procedures can result in ruining the gun.

In the takedown version, the barrel is screwed into an extension which fits into the receiver using interrupted threads. The barrel and extension, as well as the magazine tube, on those guns can be removed by turning the magazine tube and pulling it forward, then turning the barrel with the barrel extension 90 degrees and removng it.

The reason for takedown guns in the old days was that hunters often travelled to hunting areas or camps by train, and many hunters did want to entrust a valuable gun to the baggage car. A takedown gun in its case fitted nicely into the overhead rack on passenger cars or into the cabinet in a Pullman compartment. Today, most travel by hunters is by private vehicle, so takedown is not a big selling point, though some folks like them.

Jim
 
sop ive got a takedown looks very similar in condition to the familt gun in the above pic..whats it worth roughly
 

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They may be worth more now with the demand from the "cowboy" shooters, but a couple of years ago a 97 in so-so condition would bring only $200 or so.

The price jumps that occurred with Winchester rifles did not, for the most part, extend to shotguns. And no one talking about "The gun that won the West" thinks about a shotgun, even though in many cases it was the shotgun that kept the pioneers fed while they were supposedly winning the West with saddle ring carbines.

Jim
 
I was killing pheasants, doves, ducks, pigeons, jack rabbits, coyotes, and raccoons with a 12 ga 97 between 1963 and 1998.

I have been forced to modernize.

Now due to wimpy steel shot shotguns shell laws, I hunt with a 3" 12 ga 1997 Rem11-87 and a 3" 1965 Browning A5.
 
I picked up a Winchester 1897 last year, made in 1912, 28" barrel, wood still intact (nobody whacked off the steel buttplate to put on a sissy pad). It is the most lovely shade of silver. I have thought of restoring it (rust blue the metal, varnish the wood), but I can't bring myself to put $400 into refinishing a $200 shotgun. Besides, my right hand thumb doesn't like it when I shoot a 1897, which is why I shoot an A5 (they don't bite the hand that feeds them). About 10 years or so ago, a good 1897 was worth $500-$700 for cowboy action shooters, but Norinco now imports the Model 93 (a pretty good clone of the 1897) and it sells for about $300, thus setting the prices for the 1897 shooter guns at a similarly low price.
 
One of the problems on the 97's pricing, is that they made bookoos of them, similar to the model 12, but I don't think as many. The pricey ones will be a black diamond trap, pigeon grade, etc., which were carried over into the model 12s.

I've bought several of these, really cheap, with broken ejectors, firing pins, etc., for as low as $150.00, and completely refinished them after the repair, and actually made some decent money from the resale. You do the bluing and wood, as you're running a batch of customer guns through, which saves on the cost. I caustic blue them, and polish them to 400 grit, and blast the magazine tube, as the factory did. Bluing doesn't take very long. The wood is what takes the longest.

If it were me, redoing one to keep, I would have a stock made that was similar to the perch belly model 12 stock, as the grip fits the hand better.
 
I talked to a couple of dealers today and it seems that 97's in average condition (some blue, functional) are going for $500-600 due to the CAS folks. I just hope they don't cut down the barrels or do weird things to nice collectible pieces.

Jim
 
I always did hate to see a customer bring in a gun, like a 97, and want a good full choke barrel cut off at 18-1/2", or a bit longer. I always warned them of the depreciation value, trying to dissuade them on it.

If they really want to do it, I'd rather them buy one of the Numrich replacement barrels, and cut that off, while keeping their old full choke barrel back. That works just as well for their action shooting, and the barrels can be swapped back out by a competent Gunsmith. That is, for the takedown model.
 
Those old guns were surprisingly durable and long-lasting. They made some 1,024,000 of them, and made them up to 1957, so not all are antiques, legally or realistically. The major problem was ejectors breaking; we used to keep a dozen or so on hand all the time. I never did figure out why Winchester didn't come up with a better system but maybe they made money on those ejectors.

Jim
 
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