Wilson Combat/Les Baer:Feedback?

D

Daddycat

New member
Looking for feedback on how the two compare
regarding quality, accuracy, reliability
and customer service. Don't know that I'll
ever be able to actually afford one,but....


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I've had 1 Les Baer and currently own 3 guns by Wilson.

The Baer Premier II was extremely well made and very accurate. But the gun cried out for a better thumb saftey and a 'dehorning' job. At that time, Baer would not put any safety on the gun but his own, and it was a big, square competition thing,...my thumb just hurts thinking about it. I got frustrated with it, and a friend wanted it more than I did, soooo.....

I have since had a few Wilson's, and I'm happy with all of them. There customer service has been great, and the one I've had the longest, a Springfield compactLW/STEALTH has held up very well. The STEALTH has been extremely reliable, and carries like a dream. I've had it for 4 years, and carry it nearly everyday. I've since gotten a KIMBER lightly customized by them, and the work was excellent. Lastly, I just recieved a new TACTICAL CARRY PISTOL from them, also known on their website as the KZ-45......here's a pic., if you don't mind the knife in the middle of the view.

View


The TCP is excellent, and really performs right out of the box. I really love the new extraction system, and the polymer sub-frame keeps the weight down[31 oz.s unloaded]. 10 round mag, and the same thickness as a stock 1911. I'm thrilled, and recommend WILSON's highly.

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Stay Sharp!

Will Fennell/CAMILLUS CUTLERY




[This message has been edited by Will Fennell (edited January 04, 2000).]
 
Both of my Baer's (premier II) and concept 1 were from a company that has Baer do a tactical melt (light dehorn) and puts a standard safety on the side. I agree with the prior post that the Baer extended safety is a bit big for me.

My only comment on my Baer's is that they are like drinking a fine aged scotch. Once you have a taste of the "good stuff" you will never ever want to shoot a standard 1911 again. They are worth every penny.
 
Both makers of great 1911s. I just can't see spending that kind of money on something that is likely to be either impounded or lost if I ever really had to use it in a defense situation. Just me. They are worth the money.
 
Baer is, hands-down, the better of the two. I and friends have had several Wilson pistols over the years and most were excellent but the Baers we have tried are better still...more consistent in quality, at any rate. Some of the Wilsons have crapped out on reliability. I have heard that some Baers are TOO tightly fitted, but have never personally had that problem. Still, the Baer is slightly better made and is cheaper. What more is there to say? Another one to look at is Rock River Arms. They might be better still. Same quality as Baer but a little cheaper.
 
Hey! Thanks for the tip about Rock River Arms! I checked out their web site. I'd be interested in hearing more from folks out there about what their experience has been with this company and their pistols. I like what I see on their site and their prices.

Daddycat

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I have a WILSON COMBAT 1911, I would like a LES BAER too. My WILSON is EXTRAORDINARY! I saved two years for it, and like the saying goes. "Good things come to those who wait." And, "you get what you pay for." Both can be said about Bill Wilsons 1911s.
Hopefully you will be able to appreciate one of the two best handguns manufactured on the face of the planet!

Good luck. Happy shoot'n.
 
The problem is always that you're getting feedback from a small group with one or a few pistols each, so I'm not sure how statistically valid this is. However, it beats the gun rag "They sent me this Colt 2000 and it's one fine pistol!".

I have two Les Baer's. One is an early Premier II and it is a fine pistol. Never any problems, great trigger, and one day I hope to be able to use all its accuracy shooting offhand. No regrets!

The other is a recent vintage Concept VIII (stainless Commander). Out of the box, the slide stop was so tight that it took both my big mits and lots of grunting to get it to release. Then out at the range, the firing pin stop fell out during the second magazine of ammo. I was not a happy camper! To their credit, I sent it back and it has worked fine ever since. The return trip was unreasonable given the cost and reputation of the pistol.

I have heard rumors&reports that Les Baer has lost a number of the experienced pistolsmiths, and basically replaced them with people he trained to assemble his guns. One of the guys at Rock River Arms is an ex-Les Baer smith. This might account for some of the stories I've heard about the more recent Les Baer pistols.

I sure love that Premier II, though!


[This message has been edited by Hawkeye (edited January 09, 2000).]
 
I THINK...and this may very well be my overactive imagination working...that the guys at Rock River Arms were once employed by Les Baer and by Springfield Armory before that. I wouldn't bet money on that being true but it seems to me that I read it somewhere. All three places have headquarters in the same general area of Illinois, so it makes it geographically likely. Anyway, Baer usually makes a fantastic pistol. I used to think a lot of Wilson pistols until they started mass producing their "base" model. My gripe is this: why pay over $1000, closer to $2000, for a pistol that is pretty much just machined to closer tolerances than others? A Kimber Classic or Gold Match is under $1000 and just as good if not better, in my opinion. After you go past the $1000 mark, I'm not really sure that you're getting your money's worth from anyone. Pride of ownership is about all you're getting. I will say that I've seen exceptional accuracy from both Wilson and Baer pistols but, in a carry gun, that doesn't matter as much as the reliability factor. A close friend of mine has owned both Wilson and Baer pistols and is good enough to produce head shots on targets at 50 yards consistently at almost the accuracy you would get from a rest. Impressive, yes. Big deal. NO ONE can do that when the adrenaline is flowing. Can you deploy the pistol quickly and get shots off to a vital area when the guy is 3 feet from you? That's what counts more. I know that I digress, but many of us have gotten away from what really matters in a weapon to trying to have perfection in every way...to have a trophy to wear around. That's fine and everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but I've come around to being a minimalist after years of spending money on high dollar weapons. After all, it's the person behind the gun that matters, not the gun itself. Sorry to digress and carry on like that, everyone. I got off the topic. I would be proud to own any of the pistols mentioned but I feel that the Wilsons are way overpriced for what you get. The only .45 I own right now is an almost-stock Springfield Armory 1911 "loaded" package. It has a dovetailed front sight with a single tritium insert that was installed by Kurt Wickmann and I took out the full length guide rod and that's it. It has never failed to feed anything that I put in it, nor failed to extract in any way and it hits whatever it is aimed at. $439 for the pistol (used but LNIB), $40 for the sight work, plus a few dollars for regular recoil spring plug and guide rod. And the thing works as well as any Les Baer or Wilson that I have ever fired. Of course, I am still thinking about getting a more expensive pistol...always the pride of ownership thing. Sorry to digress so badly and at such length.
 
From my understanding, one of the guys at Rock River worked for Springfield when Baer was there, then left with Baer and helped him open his shop. Later he left and opened Rock River with the other pistolsmith. As far as the quality goes, I would take the Rock River over the Baer as the workmanship is better and the heat treating on the Rock River frames is supposedly better than the ones supplied to Baer. If I didn't build 1911's for a living, I would buy one from Rock River before Wilson or Baer.

Brian
 
Brian, what do you think of the STI guns, specifically the Trojan? Thanks.

Frank
 
I just got a heck of a education on Baer vs. Wilson from some one who seems to know his stuff. I jumped on www.pt-partners.com from some else's post here at TFL and found that they specialize in nice custom 1911's (especially Baer and Wilson). I gave them a call and talked to Terry Peters, one of the owners. He called me on his nickle and gave me a thirty-minute seminar on the pro's and con's of every Baer or Wilson model made.
He knew everyone at the factories personally and gave me names of people to call. If anyone is looking for a good deal on a 1911, I would recommend him. It's too bad he doesn't live up here in Oregon. He sounds like he's got a heck of an operation going on down there in Texas. Does anyone have any experiences ordering from this company? If so I would really like to hear them.
 
I bought a Baer Premier II with a few extras from Terry. You are right, he is a wealth of information. I originally emailed him about the Novak Hi Power he had and ended up with the Baer. He will work hard for your business and is true to his word. Besides, he is a full time policeman, and we all know they don't get paid any where near what they should, so doing business with him creates good karma.

Mark

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I bought some hicap mags from Terry awhile ago. He was very polite and quick to ship. Seemed like a real nice guy.

Frank
 
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