sw_florida
Moderator
And what is their law and attitude on self defense when intruders break into one's home? I'm asking because our family may end up moving from Florida to Wisconsin.
Will Wisconsin allow concealed carry any time soon?
- Thread starter sw_florida
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The Tourist
Moderator
If Jim Doyle goes, I think we will get our CCW bill passed.
On the bright side, even in liberal Madison, you can still defend your home. You might bearrested, and you will be investigated. However, if its a proper good riddance killing they won't prosecute you, and even report most of the facts in our socialist newspaper.
On the bright side, even in liberal Madison, you can still defend your home. You might bearrested, and you will be investigated. However, if its a proper good riddance killing they won't prosecute you, and even report most of the facts in our socialist newspaper.
TheBluesMan
Moderator Emeritus
Not as long as Jim Doyle is governor. And not as long as the state legislature can't gather enough votes to override his veto. The democrats control the state legislature, but quite a few support this bill. Unfortunately, not enough.
All very true statements. On the plus side the WI Supreme court has stated it is legal to open carry. I have not tried this yet so I am not sure what would happen if local police stopped me while open carrying. I have spoken with my representatives about this issue and let them know it's the single issue I vote on. I have also just finished the required class for getting a non resident carry permit for MN where I work and spend a fair amount of time.
TheBluesMan
Moderator Emeritus
The same thing played out in Ohio about five years ago. The Ohio Supreme Court reiterated that open carry was legal throughout the state unless prohibited by federal law. Ohioans for Concealed Carry organized a series of "Open Carry" get-togethers including a few in our state capitol, Columbus. One of the activities was going for a walk together in public, outside the statehouse, on the sidewalk in front of the Governor's mansion and other high-profile locations. Within a year, we had a Concealed Carry law passed by the legislature.
Everyone is right that we won't get a bill passed through the legislature while Doyle is governor. We've always had the votes to pass, but not to override a Doyle veto.
The caveat to that statement is that if we can get to the point where open carry doesn't result in an arrest for disorderly conduct or disturbing the peace, the public may want to have the guns out of sight.
There are a number of ways to approach that goal. Some folks want to do open carry marches. I don't think that they're appropriate right now under the current political situation. Doyle isn't going to have an epiphany because of marches.
Another approach mentioned on AR15.com is to challenge a disorderly conduct or disturbing the peace charge, and try to get it to the state supreme court. The question I need to find an answer to is whether a municipal violation--which is what most DC or DP charges are--can be challenged at the state level.
The last approach is to get the DOJ to tell law enforcement that they cannot arrest someone for carrying openly if that person is not doing anything illegal. I like this approach the best, and it's one that we'll take on later this year.
If we did reach a point where the legislature, and the Democrats in particular, wanted a CCW bill, it would probably be a terrible bill with all sorts of restrictions. So, we'd have to kill it with amendments. But it would still get some Dem's on record as favoring CCW for our next fight.
If we could get a really good case for the state supreme court, we could see further erosion of the ban on concealed carry. The Vegas case should have gone all the way, but I think Doyle and Milwaukee DA Chisolm realized the ramifications, and let the charges against Vegas be dismissed at the circuit court level.
Another strong case like the Vegas case could change a lot.
The caveat to that statement is that if we can get to the point where open carry doesn't result in an arrest for disorderly conduct or disturbing the peace, the public may want to have the guns out of sight.
There are a number of ways to approach that goal. Some folks want to do open carry marches. I don't think that they're appropriate right now under the current political situation. Doyle isn't going to have an epiphany because of marches.
Another approach mentioned on AR15.com is to challenge a disorderly conduct or disturbing the peace charge, and try to get it to the state supreme court. The question I need to find an answer to is whether a municipal violation--which is what most DC or DP charges are--can be challenged at the state level.
The last approach is to get the DOJ to tell law enforcement that they cannot arrest someone for carrying openly if that person is not doing anything illegal. I like this approach the best, and it's one that we'll take on later this year.
If we did reach a point where the legislature, and the Democrats in particular, wanted a CCW bill, it would probably be a terrible bill with all sorts of restrictions. So, we'd have to kill it with amendments. But it would still get some Dem's on record as favoring CCW for our next fight.
If we could get a really good case for the state supreme court, we could see further erosion of the ban on concealed carry. The Vegas case should have gone all the way, but I think Doyle and Milwaukee DA Chisolm realized the ramifications, and let the charges against Vegas be dismissed at the circuit court level.
Another strong case like the Vegas case could change a lot.
sw_florida
Moderator
The idea of peaceful marches with a holstered gun on is a great idea. That could become a monthly expression outside any City Hall in Wisconsin. Shouldn't be difficult to arrange either. A note in the local newspaper is all it takes. Those politicians need to shut up and get real. Count me in if I move there.
sw_florida, one of the people who organized the marches in Ohio told me that such marches are "a bell that can only be rung once." By that he meant that marches only garner so much attention, and should be used when the timing is the best.
In hindsight, we probably should have done marches in late 2005, before the floor votes and subsequent veto override votes in the senate and assembly. But, at that time, it looked like we had the votes to override. We weren't expecting another Gary Sherman, but that's what we got.
There are numerous reasons why our friends at the Capitol don't want open carry marches right now, and I agree with them.
Ultimately, though, the question is what the intended outcome of the marches will be. If anyone thinks that marches are going to change Doyle's mind, they're wrong.
We have a different situation in WI under Doyle than Ohio did under Taft. We have a different situation here than Minnesota did, as they had the experience of discretionary issue prior to shall-issue, so they didn't have the problems with sheriffs and police chiefs to the extent that we do.
Every state is different.
In hindsight, we probably should have done marches in late 2005, before the floor votes and subsequent veto override votes in the senate and assembly. But, at that time, it looked like we had the votes to override. We weren't expecting another Gary Sherman, but that's what we got.
There are numerous reasons why our friends at the Capitol don't want open carry marches right now, and I agree with them.
Ultimately, though, the question is what the intended outcome of the marches will be. If anyone thinks that marches are going to change Doyle's mind, they're wrong.
We have a different situation in WI under Doyle than Ohio did under Taft. We have a different situation here than Minnesota did, as they had the experience of discretionary issue prior to shall-issue, so they didn't have the problems with sheriffs and police chiefs to the extent that we do.
Every state is different.
I would love for us to have concealed carry, but if I could get away with open carry without being harrassed, then I would be satisfied with that. You Wisconsin residents, where are you located? The Tourist and I are in the Madison area, where is everyone else? Always nice to know where more potential shooting buddies are 
TheBluesMan
Moderator Emeritus
Very true, Dick. Very true.Monkeyleg said:
It is good to see that you're learning from others and applying it to your own situation rather than just blindly running with somebody else's playbook. Wisconsin is lucky to have a CCW supporter such as you.
Keep up the good work. We're all pulling for you. If the time comes that you need some outside help, let us know.
Thanks, Dave. It's been a fun ride. 
rgitzlaff, I'm in Milwaukee, where carrying openly may not result in just a DC or DTP charge. It may get you shot. The police here are on edge, as they should be.
It's amusing to visit other gun forums and listen to people complain about the WCCA and other Wisconsin gun groups. "Why aren't these groups doing anything?" they ask.
Well, first off, there's nothing right now that can be done legislatively in the short term. Over the next year or so, though, it might be possible.
One poster on another forum insisted that he had a constitutional right to carry concealed, regardless of the law. I would agree, but the courts do not.
rgitzlaff, I'm in Milwaukee, where carrying openly may not result in just a DC or DTP charge. It may get you shot. The police here are on edge, as they should be.
It's amusing to visit other gun forums and listen to people complain about the WCCA and other Wisconsin gun groups. "Why aren't these groups doing anything?" they ask.
Well, first off, there's nothing right now that can be done legislatively in the short term. Over the next year or so, though, it might be possible.
One poster on another forum insisted that he had a constitutional right to carry concealed, regardless of the law. I would agree, but the courts do not.
sw_florida
Moderator
The idea of peaceful marches with holstered gun on outside City Halls of Wisconsin would not be for the reminder towards Jim Doyle and other leftwing politicians that we don't like their attitude on guns. Such marches should serve to show the average person that there are many law-abiding people out there who are fed up with the way the 2nd is treated. When the average person on the street sees that there is nothing dramatic about carrying a piece, he can see himself in that situation, marching with us, and want that right for himself, too. I think the people of Wisconsin is used to be bullied by leftwing politicians. But the truth is that such politicians are weak, need that passiveness from the people to survive. Peaceful marches is the way to go. The numbers of people marching will just grow and grow.
sw_florida
Moderator
It may not be a good idea to start protesting in southern Wisconsin where people seeminly are indoctrinated by socialism and willingly, like zombies, take orders from power-hungry leftwing politicians. But you have to realize that it's your own fault that your politicians are stepping on you. You let them. What is the Appelton area like, where we are thinking of moving? Would the people there want to march, supported by incoming others?
People who move to Florida are people who seek fun and freedom, often retired who have come to a point in life where they aren't too interested in listening to others about how they should live their lives. Having a leftwing politician dictating in Florida wouldn't work, because no one here would listen to him. And when no one is listeing to a politician, he quickly becomes bored and disappears on his own.
Do start to march with a holstered gun on. When a break in communication arise between the people and the politicians, the politicians will give in. If your politicians can't bully you around there is no more fun for them to be had. Remember, they thrive on your passiveness and willingness to obey their orders.
People who move to Florida are people who seek fun and freedom, often retired who have come to a point in life where they aren't too interested in listening to others about how they should live their lives. Having a leftwing politician dictating in Florida wouldn't work, because no one here would listen to him. And when no one is listeing to a politician, he quickly becomes bored and disappears on his own.
Do start to march with a holstered gun on. When a break in communication arise between the people and the politicians, the politicians will give in. If your politicians can't bully you around there is no more fun for them to be had. Remember, they thrive on your passiveness and willingness to obey their orders.
"What is the Appelton area like, where we are thinking of moving?"
Well, let's see. When it looked like our CCW bill might pass over the governor's veto, the Appleton police chief said that his officers would draw on anyone they found carrying. 'Nuf said?
As for the marches, there may be a time for them, but the time isn't now. The Democrats--even the pro-gun Democrats--won't override a Doyle veto.
Well, let's see. When it looked like our CCW bill might pass over the governor's veto, the Appleton police chief said that his officers would draw on anyone they found carrying. 'Nuf said?
As for the marches, there may be a time for them, but the time isn't now. The Democrats--even the pro-gun Democrats--won't override a Doyle veto.
sw_florida
Moderator
Man, that's sick. I'm putting a snail mail letter for Doyle in the mail box tomorrow.