Will size really matter?

G

gEe26

New member
I am getting interested in potency issues? Do I need more than a 9mm? Should I carry a .45 i.e. the G30 or G36 as my primary CCW? Will the velocity of the slug matter? Or should I go for stopping power?

Most people are saying that the .40s&W G27 is a perfect blend, or the G29 10mm is a good option...

But, I want to know what caliber rounds have the most availability for practice... besides the obvious 9mm rnds. I would hate to have a weapon that I spend more time being concerned with restocking ammo than at the range!

I was 9mm all the way... but now I may want to be converted to the all powerful .45 +P caliber shooting G30 or G36 as my primary CCW.

Another issue I have is... if i use an exotic round ballistically I will narrow myself down on the list of possible "suspects" in a shooting...

I rather be low key if i have to use my weapon in defense... i dont want to be identified too easily!
 
What it really comes down to is what you're most comfortable shooting, what you can shoot the best, and what you're going to be willing to carry on a regular basis.

If you can't shoot the cartridge/gun you choose, or if the gun's too big for you to carry comfortably, you've made a poor choice.

That being said, the differences between the top defensive rounds in 9mm, .40 S&W and .45 are really so slight as to be more the subject of debate on boards like these than actually apparent in actual use.

Quite frankly, you'll be well served by any of the calibers you mention, as long as you practice, and carry the gun.

I regularly carry guns chambered for .22 LR, .38 Spl., .357 Mag., and 9mm.

I don't feel underarmed with any of them.
 
I personally prefer the .40 S & W 165 gr, but I reload it. Therefore, I can afford to shoot it. If you don't reload you had better have some ammo cash, because .45 acp is expensive and .40 not much better. I agree with Mike, the defensive advantage is really to slight to worry about, if you are comparing the best 9mm has to offer to the best 40 & 45 have to offer. Shoot what you can afford, its much more fun and you will be just as safe.

Another issue I have is... if i use an exotic round ballistically I will narrow myself down on the list of possible "suspects" in a shooting...
Click to expand...

Stay away from exotic anything for self defense. Every law enforcement office I have ever spoken with said load factory ammo only for protection. Don't give a lawyer any more ammo against you. If Golden Sabre 165 gr hollow points are good enought for the DEA , then they are good enough for me.:)
 
OK, George, I wasn't going to do this, but you forced me to with that comment...

Here's one of my old posts on this subject... There are some dated references to other threads in it, but the wisdom it contains is still as appropriate today as it was last year...

Thanks for letting the Genie out of the bottle, George. :D

-------------------------------------------------

This evening, as I slumbered, I was suddenly awaken by the inner perimiter alert alarms.

Damn, I thought to myself, how did the intruder get around the concertina wire and moat in
perimeter 1, and the claymores in perimeter 2?

I looked out the window, and was horrifed....

HOTTENTOTS!

Hundreds of them, skulking through the shadows, hiding behind shrubs, laying low, waiting for
their chance to rush the house!

I knew I had to act quickly. I ran for the Browning M1917 watercooled machine gun, but then I
remembered what I had read on my favorite web site...

IT'S ONLY A WIMPY .30 CALIBER! (But it would be good for spray and pray!)

So, thinking quickly, off to the sponson mounted Gatling gun in .45-70.

BUT IT WAS JAMMED!

I had used grease on the mating surfaces, and it had gotten dusty; nothing would move!

Cringing, I knew I had to get out the big 'uns. Sucking in a lungfull of air, I hit the General
Quarters alarm, knowing that it was going to cost me an arm and a leg for the 5-inch-gun
crews.

Quickly, I shuffled that thought aside; I knew I had made the right decision in getting that
home equity loan and having two excess 5-inch/38 caliber mounts from the Missouri installed
on the corners of my house.

"MAN YOUR BATTLE STATIONS!" I yelled into the speaking tubes as the klaxon sounded above
me. "FIRE CONTROL, DIRECT MULTIPLE TARGETS AND COMMENCE FIRING AT WILL!"

Suddenly, the night was shattered!

Tongues of flame penetrated the night, the crashing report sounding like Thor's Hammer
smiting the heavens and earth!

Again and again and again the guns roared!

Then, suddenly, all was still.

The hollow, ghostly voice came from the speaking tube... "No more targets, sir. We believe the
enemy has retreated."

"Very well," I replied. "Send the men to bed."

I slumped into my chair, my Lahti 20mm pocket anti-tank pistol in my lap, a gin & tonic in my
hand.

In the dawn's early light, I walked the scene of the carnage, recently known as my front lawn,
with one of my county's finest.

To my shock and chagrin, there wasn't a Hottentot to be found. Anywhere.

Just three dazed and bleeding alley cats...

"You should have gone for those surplus main guns from the Pennsylvania. They have stopping
power," the constable said.

Then, with a grin on his face, the officer turned to me and said...

"You know, sometimes size DOES matter."
 
I think you'll be able to get 9mm, .40 S&W, .45 ACP at any gun store. So stocking is not an issue. On the other hand, 9mm is definitely cheaper for practice.
 
9mm would be the obvious, as you said. Otherwise, 45ACP seems to fit what you need although it is a little more expensive than 40S&W in general.
 
In my book, shot placement counts for MUCH more than bullet diameter. If you can comfortably shoot a .22 LR but can't really handle a 9mm, I'd rather see the .22 LR in your pocket because if you have to use it you won't be so worried about controlling the gun that you fail to do anything else right.

A 9mm will put down any human being on the planet IF you do your job in controlling the shot(s). With the larger and more powerful calibers, you are increasing your margin for error. Someone shot in the shoulder with a 9mm may not stop coming at you. Change that 9mm to a .45 ACP and you probably have a BG on the ground rather than on his feet.
 
I'm a member of the bigger is better philosophy. One reason I drive a 4x4 Bronco, should I or my family be in an auto accident, I believe the size of the vehicle will benefit me in most cases. I've never been afraid of how small something is, how big something is give me pause for thought. Does this equate over to bullet sizes. I don't think so, but I bought a .45 caliber handgun for home defense anyway. As for being concerned about buying ammo, I can buy .45ACP ammo anywhere. If you can afford a gun you can afford the ammo for it. If you can't afford the ammo don't buy the gun or sell something.

As for the HOTTENTOTS, now they send chills up my spine.
 
Mike,
ROTFLMAO!!

gEe26,
I have to second most of what Mike said in his first post. If you study and understand ballistics and "Stopping Power" of today's self defense ammo you would know that anything from 9mm through .45acp is very close in terminal performance. While one particular round of .45 looks like it might be the best, a different round falls way short and is outdone by some of the better 9mm stuff.

What is important is that you are comfortable and accurate with the weapon you choose. Keep in mind that recoil is a very subjective issue, we all perceive it differently. If you are recoil sensitive, then the 9mm is a good choice, and stay away from the +P+ ammo, otherwise recoil may become a problem. If you are not recoil sensitive, or only moderately recoil sensitive, this opens up the field. Some .40SW's have very moderate recoil while others fetch a good lick. The .357sig is quite a snappy round. The 10mm and .45acp both can have substantial recoil. If you flinch when you pull the trigger, your split times are high and your second shot placement is not what it should be, then you are probably shooting too heavy recoiling a caliber. You would most likely be better served with a lighter caliber you can shoot more efficiently.

Some people use the studies and writings of a particular person to make their decision on what to carry, either as a weapon or the particular round for the weapon. For instance, some look only at what M&S (Marshall & Sanow) have written and base their decisions solely off of that. Others may look at only what the Jello Junkies report. Some feel light/fast projectiles are best, while others feel that heavy/slower is better. Others follow the writings of Flacker and feel that the only way to guarantee a stop is to hit the CNS, (central nervous system), and if the bad guy stops without hitting his CNS then he must have fainted, just given up or finally lost enough blood as to no longer be able to function. So with the Flackerites, it doesn't really matter what you shoot, as long as your bullet has the ability to hit the CNS, i.e.: adequate penetration.

With all that said, potency is a very subjective issue. Carry and shoot a weapon/round that you can shot efficiently, accurately and personally feel comfortable with. Then shoot till the BG stops, don't count on one shot to do the job for you!!

As for me, I personally prefer the 10mm and have since the mid 80's. This makes me part of the minority. My second choice is the .45acp. Up until just recently I would not have considered carrying anything other than those two calibers for self defense. However, with the R&D that has been done on terminal ballistics of bullets in the common SD ammo 9-.45, much of the new stuff out is so close in terminal performance, I am considering one of the mini-mini 9's or 40's for a deep concealment gun. Times change and we need to learn to be open minded and accept that what use to be considered junk, may very well be some of the best stuff out right now. If not the best stuff, at least more than adequate.

If ammo cost and availability is an issue, I would recommend steering clear of the 10mm. Unfortunately, it is not a big seller at most gun stores and ranges, therefore, availability is usually not the best, and it is usually a bit pricier than other stuff. You will generally find a pretty good selection of 9mm, .40sw and .45acp just about anywhere you go.

HTHS

__________________
Shoot Strait,
Michael
smokin.gif


"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin, 1759
 
Basically my philosophy has always been: Carry the biggest gun you can comfortably carry chambered for the largest caliber with which you can shoot accurately and quickly. Whatever that is, stick with it.
 
If you've been using 9mm in the past, and you've practiced enough with it to become proficient, I see no reason to change.

What ALL schools of bullet theory agree on is that the three most important factors in the stopping power equation are: shot placement, shot placement, and shot placement.

Just my thoughts.

-Morgan
 
Thanks for all the info...

I too am from the mind state of the bigger the better! But, I am still torn between the 9mm and the .45 calibers...

I know i will eventually get both a G26 and G36... I just dont know which one I should purchase first...

I want the power of the .45 caliber though... BANG!!!!... Take that BG... didnt know that I was paking a hand cannon!!!!

wheeeew Booooy!!!
 
If you've never owned a Glock, then I'd steer you toward the G26 first. It's less expensive to learn to shoot and handle a 9mm than it is a .45 ACP.

Those are two fine choices, though. I own and carry a G19 (another good option for you as well) and a G21 is within easy reach of me at night.

Good luck and good shooting! :D
 
You know something you all are right... my next purchase will be a G26!! Maybe for Christmas... or sooner if I cant wait...

I have just purchased a Bulgarian Military Makarov and am awaiting its arrival to my FFL sometime nextweek...

I will still get a G30 or G36 at a later date... cause i know the glock fever will hit me once I have that G26 in hand!!! One Glock is never enough!

Thanks for the info !!!

Safe and Happy shooting to you all!
 
Bullets with higher sectional density are less likely to get deflected and will penetrate. Wider bullets are more likely to damage an important wire or hose. You don't necessarily get expansion but you must get penetration. You have to be able to make fast, accurate shots. Pick your caliber accordingly.

ljlc
 
Bullet size is secondary, shot placement will determine the effectiveness of your shots. That said, a bigger bullet is certainly not worse than a smaller one, but I think that the whole caliber discussion is largely baloney anyway. Everybody promotes their favorite caliber, supported by horror stories about the non-performance of other, "lesser" calibers. Fact is that any bullet will kill you dead if you catch it in the wrong spot, even a .25ACP or a .22 Short.

My favorite illustration story for that is the incident where two guys get into an altercation in a bar. Guy A pulls out a Taurus PT92 and empties the 15-round magazine at Guy B, not scoring a single hit at very short range. Guy B returns fire with a single round from a .22LR, killing Guy A with a center mass/solar plexus hit.

Carry what you're comfortable with, and what you can shoot well. If that's a .32, a 9mm or a .45ACP doesn't matter, as long as you make sure that you can hit what you're aiming at, quickly and accurately. I'd be more scared of the old guy at the range who can empty a Jetfire into the head zone of an IPSC target at 15 yards in rapid fire, than of the young armchair commando who shotgun-patterns his target at 7 yards with his H&K USP in .45ACP.


Like the bad guy in one of the James Bond movies says after being mocked for his marginal caliber choice: "I always aim for the eye, Mr. Bond, and I never miss."
 
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