Will Missouri finally get CCW?

B

BAB

New member
As I understand it, Jim Talent (R) is one of the candidates for governor in Missouri. From what I've seen, he is also at least slightly ahead in some polls. In checking him out (on his website), I found this:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
I am a strong supporter of the right of law-abiding adults to keep and bear arms, as set forth in the Second Amendment. I supported the right to carry when I was in the legislature 10 years ago, and I still do because it would deter both crime and violent confrontations. Criminals who, of course, will carry firearms regardless of the law - would no longer be certain that potential victims were unable to defend themselves and would be less likely to attack in the first place. So, for example, all women who live in high-crime areas would be less vulnerable even though only a few women would get a permit, and still fewer would actually carry a firearm. This is why the experience of communities throughout the country consistently proves that preserving access of
law-abiding citizens to firearms tends to reduce violence and violent crimes. Conversely, I believe is it imperative to vigorously enforce stronger punishments for violent crime involving the misuse of firearms. Such enforcement targets criminals and deters their activities.
[/quote]

Now, I don't know the man, nor have I investigated his voting record. But if he can be taken at his word, it sounds good. From what I read on the MOCCW website, the MO house had no problems passing CCW, but Carnahan continually twisted so many arms in the senate that it never got through. But with Talent in there, it would seem there might be a good chance of CCW getting through and getting signed.

So, Missouri TFLers, how does it look? CCW for Missouri in 2001?
 
Ayoob has written that when the bill had a chance, a set of "Vermont only or death carry fans" had a big hissy fit for the legislature and helped the typical shall issue bill fail.

Then the referendum which failed.
 
I have not heard much out of either candidate on CCW or gun issues in general. Carnahan was fiercely anti-gun and campained hard aginst the initiative which only failed by a couple of percentage points. If we can get a gov. that will sign the bill we have a leg. that will give him one to sign. Talent appears to leading in the polls we shal see.

Lonnie
 
Democrat Holden is/was a man upon whom Missouri Democrats had placed high hopes for retaining the Governorship of this state after the departure of the late Gov. Carnahan. Holden's positions were middle of the road on most issues and on the 2nd Amendment he was fine. He specifically stated after the narrow defeat (?, ther is still some question about this) of Proposition B, our concealed carry initiative, that he would sign a concealed carry law if passed by the legislature, a certaintity, especially if it stiffened up the requirements somewhat in order to make it a little different than the issue that was on the ballot. Since the main Republican canditate, Talent, was in favor of this initiative, it looked like the people of Missouri had a win/win situation going for them on this issue, at least.
Now, in the governor's debate that was held last week, he has completely changed his position. He now says that as governor, he would oppose any concealed carry law, just like Carnahan did.
I cannot see any sense to his policy flip/flop, but I do not now what his advisors think. I would think that this will just alienate many people who would have otherwise voted for him and will gain him very little from areas were concealed carry was not favorably received (St. Louis and Kansas City).
I have the distinct impression that Talent, of whom I am not supporter, had already pulled ahead to perhaps an insurmountable lead by the time of Holden's flip/flop.
One of the odd things about this election is the fact that a Rual Democrat is opposing an urban Republican. Usually, a urban candiate is massively opposed by rural Missourians and cannot win. Most of our govenors (Dem & Rep) have come from smaller towns and in this tradition, Holden should have a strong showing in rural Missouri plus the aid of urban democrats, a combination that can usually carry a canditate over the top. But this does not seem to be working in Holden's case against Tallent, who is from St. Louis and who has almost no empathy for rural Missouri. Out there, he might as well be a man from Mars, but somehow much or rural Missouri seems to be going for Talent and he is also holding quite well in his St. Louis base.
Perhaps Holden's Flip/Flop is his awkward attempt to try to gain a better showing among urban voters who are supposed to be afraid of concealed carry. He also made a several other "suburban soccar momish" pitches, which anyone can see are about as unheartfelt as can be coming out of the mouth of what many here see as just another hick from the southwest. I think he has big problems and little time to solve them now. I think he alienated lots of people with his performance in the debates.
In any case, if Holden somehow wins the election, concealed carry will remain a contentious thing in this state. If Talent wins, I would guess that a resonable concealed carry law will be a reality very soon as it was only Carnahan's veto threat that has prevented it so far, not the legislature.
But guys, just mark my words, even if Talent is now pro-concealed carry and perhaps favorable to us on this one issue at this one point in time, don't ever forget that this is one slick, slimey and extremely ambitious urban politican who will have no qualms about sticking the knife in our backs if he ever begins to beleive that it would suite his interests. Don't ever trust him if you cannot see him, he's that type.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
But guys, just mark my words, even if Talent is now pro-concealed carry and perhaps favorable to us on this one issue at this
one point in time, don't ever forget that this is one slick, slimey and extremely ambitious urban politican who will have no
qualms about sticking the knife in our backs if he ever begins to beleive that it would suite his interests. Don't ever trust him
if you cannot see him, he's that type.
[/quote]

That's what I'd be afraid of...him pulling something like Gov. Taft of Ohio did.
 
For what it's worth, in the last election that Talent ran in, I voted for the democrat. Does anyone want to know who the democrat was?
 
That candidate was our own John Ross and I am glad that pro 2nd Amendment Democrats in this area can still successfully nominate such a man as their candiate. I think it shows were the real public opinion is.
Too bad I live about 4 blocks too far south to have voted for him. I'm stuck in Gephart's district and how I would like to topple that two faced liar. Right now he's telling everybody how much he stands behind hunters and sportsmen: Puke, Puke, Puke.
John's nomination as the democratic canditate for the 3rd congressional district infuriated the local media types and that was a lot of fun as well, though it did not help his campaign any.
To be honest, John didn't run a very serious campaing. He won the nomination and then just kind of disappeared. He didn't quit his day job to run for Congress.
 
If the Missiour concealed carry issue comes up soon after new governor is in office, there could be a good chance for it assuming the General Assembly does its part. A lot of new reps could get elected. All you MO residents find out who is running for these positions in your areas and find out where they stand on this. Almost everyone knows who is running for president (two of the candidates anyway), some people know who's running for governor in their states, even fewer know who's running for U.S. Congress. A great majority of people I talk to have no idea who's running for state congress offices. It's not a republican/democrat thing. Find out who is for and who is against. Here is proof that these positions ARE IMPORTANT. If there are enough senator and reps on the right side in the G.A., it doesn't matter who the governor is, they can override a veto!!! They recently did this on the abortion issue. But then a court steped in struck it down (not trying to change the subject or even take a stand on either side of that issue, just making a point for what could happen).

Even if the new governor is in favor of Missouri concealed carry, I wonder how this will turn out when those in opposition say "it was rejected by the voters before...they are forcing it on us...Missouri doesn't really want this...".

Before, many companies and large businesses gave large sums of money to help defeat propostion B last year. This will happen if this issue comes up again. This time, more people need to fight back through letters and phone calls to these places. Discontinue using their services if necessary (if you already haven't).
 
I haven't heard anything bad about Talent before. Everything I have heard is pretty good, but I haven't been looking at him too hard for very long either. Assuming that he really is interested in passing CCW, how long would it take to get through the system?
 
If the bill is similar to the one that failed (I should say, was railroaded) it might just pass. The voter turn-out has to be higher and the election process must be watched closer. I'm positive that there was fraud involved in that vote and it was in part engineered by some out of state people over in Jayhawk land. The Johnson County KS bluebloods were screaming in the KC Star all sorts of nonsense and scaring the pants off of women and old people. I think that Talent would sign it but it will be a real battle to get it through the Legislature and back on a ballot. Of course if there's money to be made (and there almost always is) the lawyers and consultants and all the other hanger-ons in Jefferson City will be salivating to get a chunk. Missouri politics is a pretty oily scene. Always has been. Missouri is one of two states that have stars in the Confederate flag and never went thru reconstruction. I think that has something to do with the particular nastiness of MO politics.
 
Cap n ball: As I recall, there were a lot of dirty dealings going down in St. Louis county. Huge blocks of absentee ballots 100% against the proposal showing up at the last minute, precincts coming up with greater than 100% turnout, that sort of thing. Ballot fraud isn't a possiblity, it's a dead certainty!

And the late unlamented Carnahan refused to either certify OR decertify the election results, in violation of Missouri law, in order to prevent anyone from challenging the results in court. No, there's no question that election was crooked, though you could argue it might have been a close thing even if honest.... Though I don't think that's what the exit polls were saying.

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Sic semper tyrannis!
 
You've also got to realize that the referendum was passed overwhelmingly in every county but the urban ones, i.e., KCMo, St. Louis, etc.

By the time the media blitz was over, I felt like I'd been slimed. I'm still pissed off.

I'm voting for Talent.
 
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