Will 41F reduce number of new find trusts founded?

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zanemoseley

New member
I'm just now thinking of building a 300 blk sbr with suppressor. A buddy of mine started a trust and I was looking into it but 41F makes it much less advantageous. I would have put my wife on it but now she would have to be fingerprinted and photographed with every purchase, not sure she would be a fan of it. Also now that they're removing the CLEO signature requirements for individual purchases it's even less tempting to get a trust.

So of you guys that don't already have a trust will the new 41F regulations disuade you from starting one now?
 
zanemoseley I'm just now thinking of building a 300 blk sbr with suppressor. A buddy of mine started a trust and I was looking into it but 41F makes it much less advantageous. I would have put my wife on it but now she would have to be fingerprinted and photographed with every purchase, not sure she would be a fan of it. Also now that they're removing the CLEO signature requirements for individual purchases it's even less tempting to get a trust.....
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The main advantage of a trust isn't avoiding the CLEO signoff.....it's the ability to have any member of the trust be in lawful possession of the firearm. As an individual you must be present when anyone else shoots your MG, SBR, silencer, etc. With a trust you can let them go off on a hunting trip while you go watch TV.

Your wife doesn't have to be photographed & fingerprinted each time you submit a Form 1 or 4........only that photos and prints are submitted each time.

Silencer Shop is installing several hundred kiosks at Powered By Silencer Shop Dealers around the country that will enable you to scan your fingerprints. They have a cellphone app that will format a selfie to the required size. SS will then keep them on file until your next purchase.

You and the members of your trust would only need to have your prints scanned once.
 
For some reason I thought you had to submit new prints each time for every party in the trust. The photo must be no older than a year but not sure how you would be able to tell.

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The main advantage of a trust isn't avoiding the CLEO signoff.....it's the ability to have any member of the trust be in lawful possession of the firearm.
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That's one advantage. Another is to facilitate passing these items on to your heirs when you die. There are other ways to accomplish this, such as with a corporation or LLC, but most people find these too intimidation or, in some states, require annual maintenance.

I think there will be a certain group of people not looking for these benefits who will buy now, who wouldn't before, that the CLEO signoff barrier is gone.

For some reason I thought you had to submit new prints each time for every party in the trust. The photo must be no older than a year but not sure how you would be able to tell.
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Facial appearance and, in some cases, fingerprints can change over time (due to injury, for example). But the electronically stored pics and prints will probably be able to be reused a few times, depending on how often you make an NFA purchase.
 
That's one advantage. Another is to facilitate passing these items on to your heirs when you die.
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That can easily be accomplished even with personally owned NFA items. Dont need a Trust, LLC or the like.
 
And for ME... The big advantage WAS not needing the CLEO sign off. My Sheriff flat refused to sign. Even after sending him a letter explaining who i was (Govt clearence, armed around high level diplomats, incld VPOTUS, Former LEO, THE WORKS). He just would not sign.

FINE, formed a Trust and started buying stuff. 7 cans and 4 SBR's later, he no longer will have the power to say no.

I will continue to buy things thru the trust. Just as easy for me. If/when i want to add another Trustee, we just get them printed and photo'd. Not a big deal.
 
zanemoseley said:
Will 41F reduce number of new find trusts founded?
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I don't think so, I think the number of trusts will increase. But I also think the number of people buying as an individual will increase even faster.
 
It only becomes prohibitive when you decide to list 46 trustees on your trust, because you want your friends, family, work friends and THEIR families tone able to use your suppressor :rolleyes:

I have 3 people on my trust, which is more than enough so that if we need to go in for prints, it's not a big deal. Also, MY dealer (who deals HEAVILY in NFA items) says that you supply the prints and pictures ONCE and are valid for two years...
 
MagnumWill said:
Also, MY dealer (who deals HEAVILY in NFA items) says that you supply the prints and pictures ONCE and are valid for two years...
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That's what we all originally thought when 41F first came out, but the ATF said back in January that this isn't the case; they said you'll have to submit fingerprints and photos every single time you buy an NFA item after July 13th.


Here are two articles on the subject:

http://rkmerting.com/atf-41f-and-the-two-year-window/

"What initially looked like a one-time, or once every two years, requirement has become mandatory with every application."


https://blog.princelaw.com/2016/02/05/important-update-on-implementation-of-atf-41f/

"As reported by Silencer Shop, ATF asserted that the certification procedure outlined in ATF-41F does not, in fact, establish a two-year window during which trusts and other legal entities submitting a subsequent Form 1 or Form 4 could certify there had been no change and thereby avoid having to resubmit fingerprints and photographs for all 'responsible persons' with each new application. Instead, ATF apparently now takes the position that despite the clear language of a regulation less than a month old, it really means something else."
 
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