Wildcatting ?

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butchb243

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Don't try this at home but here is what I am doing With a pair of model 16 S&W' s. Remember that these guns are made on the same frame as the model 19 a 357 & that they are chambered for the 32 mag. so there is a lot more steel in them .
I couldnt find any loads I liked in the manuals all the powder was too hot to get a full power load . that because the H&R guns cant handle the pressure of a really hot load.
So now what am I doing well,I've gotten up to 8grs. of 2400
& 8.5grs of IMR2447 and now getting 1500 fps from the 100gr bullet out of a 32 mag & still no signs of Pressure. Cases just fall out & primers are still rounded.
Think I should try for more?:)
 
Maybe we could all get together and take out a life insurance policy on you.

As far as I am concerned the existing manuals are the WORD on safe reloading. Handgun cartridges are not very forgiving as many people have discovered. I had a friend that blew the top off of a Ruger Super Blackhawk in .44 mag!!!

That takes so real doing as these are BUTT STRONG revolvers. He lost part of his ear and scalp in that deal. He is lucky to be alive.
 
:rolleyes:
Chronograph.
Document
Look for signs of erratic ignition as you step up from very low.
Remember that primers are not reliable sign of pressure.
Nor is ease of extraction.
Do not publish loads that are significantly different from established loads.

Live long.

Sam
 
A couple of things I have learned loading wildcat rifle cartridges.

1. There is no free lunch in reloading.

2. If you are getting significantly increased velocity over what is published for a particular bullet weight it is because of increased pressure.

3. Always trust what your chrono is telling you. Extra speed is always produced by increased pressure.

4. Different firearms may vary in muzzle velocity with identical loads (up to 250 FPS in some rifles).

5. Even though most modern firearms are engineered with a margin of safety. Continuous pressure overloads can lead to metal fatigue and eventual failure.

6. Studies done with strain gauges have proved that primer appearance, extraction characteristics, and brass observation do not directly correspond to over pressure loads. Some loads as much as 10,000 psi over maximum showed fairly normal extraction and case appearance. Makes you wonder how much over pressure some of the loads are that show pressure signs really are.

7. Finally, if you want a faster muzzle velocity for a particular bullet weight in a particular caliber, purchase a firearm or rechamber an existing firearm in a cartridge designed to give that range of performance.

Most of the fun in wild cat cartridge work is about designing a cartridge that allows you to rechamber an existing firearm for a new bore diameter. Either over or under bore from the original, thus allowing you to shoot a bullet with a higher sectional density or shoot a smaller bullet faster. Running existing cartridges at +P+
in a firearm not designed for those pressures can be fatal.
 
The problem you're going to run into involves case volume. More shell volume, less pressure, even if the ballistics, projectile weight and type are all the same.

That's why there's more power available in .45LC+P than there is in .44Mag.

If you took .357Maximum shells, necked 'em down to .32cal and shortened so that the overall length is the same as a .357Magnum, and then altered the .32Mag cylinder to take such a critter, THEN you'd be wildcatting. And that would probably work pretty damn good, except that high-pressure bottleneck cartridges don't work in wheelguns real well. It'd work real good in a Thomson Center or something.

Consider how they're getting more power out of the .357Sig cartridge than the 9mmParabellum. Both cases can take a 357Sig-sized powder charge, but in the 9mmPara it would run the risk of blowup. It's not that they use the 40S&W as a base case to get more actual powder in there.
 
The Model 16 AKA .32 Masterpiece is chambered for the .32 S&W Long, not the .32 H&R Magnum. The .32 S&W Long uses a .3150 dia bullet vs the .32 H&R Magnum's .312 dia bullet, to say nothing of the difference in case length. I guess you could find one that would accept the longer case, but the odds of finding 2 of a model discontinued for close to 30 years are pretty steep. Then again, I guess you could just ream out the chambers.

Anyhow, the closest thing I can find as far as data pertains to the .30 M1 Carbine using a 100 gr bullet and the powders you list. FWIW, it takes almost a 33% increase in powder weight, PLUS a 20 inch barrel PLUS a bullet that fits the bore dia better to hit 1800 fps.

I can't see getting 1500fps out of the combination you list.
 
Oh Jeez, I thought he was starting with a genuine .32Magnum. Shows you what I know about classic S&Ws.

Butch ol' son, the .32Mag runs MUCH higher pressures than the .32S&WLong. Granted, the S&W K-Frame was set up in .357 in some flavors, BUT S&W had a habit of doing different heat-treats on different caliber guns; on the mild calibers like .22LR and probably .32S&WLong, there's no guarantee they did ANY heat-treat on the frame.

If that's the situation, then just a modest diet of strong *factory* .32Magnum could stretch it. The kind of hot-rodded crap you're talking about isn't "wildcatting" under these circumstances, it's just psycho.

Sorry to be blunt and all, but what you're doing here ain't safe. You're past "gonna slowly damage the gun" territory and are veering straight into "hand grenade" territory.

I was assuming you were starting with a real .32Mag gun, which would have had a decent heat-treat.

-------------------

In contrast, if you buy a New Model Ruger Blackhawk in .357, you can swap or re-bore the barrel to .44Mag, swap or bore the cylinder likewise, and it'll work just fine. Same heat-treat on all the frames. People who think S&W did the same from the mid-1930s through the '90s need to re-think 'cuz it ain't the same situation at all.

(But with the SuperRedhawk, Ruger had to come up with a new heat-treat on the .454 and .480s...they marked such guns with a radically different finish.)
 
Model 16 was made in .32 MAG.
I had to look too.

Model 16 made from 47-74; then another run in .32mag bout 90-92.

Sam
 
I haven't reloaded in years, but i always thought it was a pretty darn good idea to stick VERY close to what the reloader books said.
Case in point..had a buddy who thought he could get .357 Mag performance from his .25 Raven. I don't know where he got the dies, bullets, etc, but he started reloading them. He would dump in a charge of Bullseye, take a trimmed down 5/16" wooden dowel rod, tamp down the powder, dump in more, tamp down, etc..etc..seat bullet.

After about 40 rounds of these, his new nickanme was "Lefty"
 
CR: thanks, that's interesting.

OK, so if he's starting with a .32Mag gun, this falls under the category of "unwise". If a .32S&WLong, the term would be more like "psycho" :D.
 
I think the original question, "Think I should try for more?" has been well answered. The consensus seems to be, "No". I started to move this thread to the Handloading forum, but, in truth, there is no need to. I'll close this with an invitation to butchb243 - you are certainly welcome to pursue this over in the Handloading forum, but please remember to state in bold type that your loads are beyond the published max as is the rule over there.

BTW, I am assuming you meant IMR 4227 powder and not IMR 2447. 4227 usually works best in small rifle and large capacity handgun cartridges (.44 Mag, .45 Colt, etc.) I don't think using it in a .32 H&R Mag is dangerous, but it is very slow and not suited to that caliber. There is little to no published data available for it.
 
Thanks to all who answered this thread . You have all convinced me to cease & desist. By the way they are the newer model 16's chambered for the 32 mag, & yes I did mean IMR4227. JUST CALL ME FUDGE FINGERS>:D :) ;)
 
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