Why the long barrel

T

Teirst

New member
I was reading a thread the other day about the Condor outback and its 20" barrels. Someone had said that it is not the length of the barrel that determines the spread it is all the choke. It was also brought up that with buckshot you do not get a "seal" like a bullet does, so the extra barrel does not give you much more fps.

This information could be incorrect and if so please let me know.

The reason I am asking is I have been looking for a new hobby for myself and my wife. We both agreed that bird hunting would be worth a shot. The problem with my wife is she is a bit on the weak side and has trouble even holding up my marlin 336.

Due to current budget and the fact I was planning on just picking up a couple 870's or 500's. However when I saw the Condor Outback and its super short overall length I got to thinking my wife could actually do well with it. Of course when she saw the dark walnut and stainless version she fell in love.

Would she be handicapped with the short barrels? If not then why even have long barrels at all.

Thoughts?
 
The longer barrel helps some people 'swing' through their targets...and they get more hits.

For me, it doesn't matter...and I much prefer a 21" barrel over a 28" barrel. But, I am in the minority...most here will prefer the longer barrels. With respect to velocity and spread of the shot, the length of the barrel is negligible.
 
So I guess as long as we actually check the pattern we should be fine with shorter guns.


I was actually thinking about going with a shotgun in the "turkey gun" length of around 24 inches. She is sold on the double, but from what I have read and the fact I see myself getting a lot more use out of mine, so an 870 or 500 might be a smarter purchase.
 
I'm with mathman except for the part
and they get more hits.
Click to expand...
meaning the longer barrel not i.m.o.:D

Practice practice & more practice short barrels work just fine. That be 20" barrel


attachment.php
 
Last edited:
"...bird hunting would be worth a shot..." What birds? Migratory or upland? Ducks/geese or grouse, et al? Makes a difference. Migratory birds, aside from needing a different licence(a Duck stamp, Stateside) usually need a longer barrel with a tighter choke than upland birds. A shorter barrel with a more open choke is much better for upland birds.
"...she is a bit on the weak side..." Think 20 guage semi-auto for your lady. Less felt recoil, same usefulness with a change of choke and a whole bunch of practice for both of you.
 
I'm with mathman except for the part
Quote:
"and they get more hits."
Click to expand...

I only meant that if they like the longer barrel and believe that it helps them, then they probably will get more hits than if they were using a shorter barrel.

I completely agree that as long as a shotgun is in skilled hands, the barrel length is pretty much irrelevant.
 
Teirst,
With a smooth bore, the shot is at maximum velocity well within the first 20-inches of the barrel. The big difference between shotguns and rifles is the operating pressure -- typically, scatter guns operate at about a quarter of the pressure of rifles. Unless the shotgun barrel is very short, you needn't concern yourself about reduced performance. It's erratic handling and increased blast and recoil that should concern the short barrel shooter.
FYI: Some clubs prohibit short barrels because they don't want to deal with the problems associated with the increased noise level.

The dynamics of rifle and shotgun shooting are different. Wing shooting is more a style, than muscle, thing -- the strength required to hold a rifle steadily on target isn't necessary. I've seen quite a few petite women who are excellent wing shooters using full-sized 12-ga guns. May I suggest you treat your wife to an introductory lesson at a trap and skeet club. She may be surprised by the different physical strength requirements in wing vs rifle shooting.

Mathman and noyes may be happy with their short barrels, but they are a limited minority. I'm sure they get a lot of enjoyment shooting them; however, neither mentioned his success in competitive wing shooting using a short barrel. Many consider tactical training the only reason to shoot with short barrels. Your instructor can discuss the advantages and applications of the standard barrel lengths.

Mathman's comment, "I completely agree that as long as a shotgun is in skilled hands, the barrel length is pretty much irrelevant," indicates a lack of a diversity in his shotgunning experience. As I previously indicated, barrel length may be some what irrelevant ballistically; but, it's paramount in gun handling. If it's "pretty much irrelevant," then why is so much emphasis put on barrel length selection? The experienced shooter knows different barrel lengths compliment shooting different shooting environments. Mathman may do all his shooting with one barrel, but it's like playing golf with just one club (that's the wrong size).
 
Noyes, there is a difference between shooting a stationary or slow moving target and swinging on a flying bird. There is indeed a signifigant advantage to a longer barrel when swinging on a flying bird (or clay pidgeon). That's exactly the reason competitive trap shooters use 30 and 32 inch barrels.
 
Differences between a 20 and 28" barrel:

Pattern: little or none. Choke is the controlling factor.

Velocity: about 50 fps in favor of the longer barrel. Not a big deal in the field.

The big difference is in how the gun swings. Sure, it's possible to hit a moving target with a 20" barrel, but it's a lot easier with a 28".
 
I won't claim to be an expert shotgun shooter...however, I will stand by my comments. A longer barrel is not needed. If you ask me, I think barrel length is somewhat of a fad...right now, longer barrels are 'in'. It's a marketing strategy. If people actually knew that you do all your shotgunning with one gun, the gun producers wouldn't sell as many guns.

Tom Knapp doesn't use a long barreled shotgun for all his trick shooting. (24" barrel if I'm not mistaken) He is pretty good.

Don't get me wrong, I have more than one shotgun and I have various barrel lengths...and I shoot them all about the same. I just prefer the shorter barrels.

You are spot on about the noise...shorter barrels are noticeably louder.
 
Thanks for all the info. we were going to start with dove and go from there. I know my terminology is poor but heck, got to start somewhere.
 
ALWAYS pattern your loads ! Never guess ,you might be surprized.
The fast burning powders of a shotgun make long barrels un-necessary. Much of the desire for 32" or longer is based on myth. Also a 24" auto or pump has the same OAL as a 28" O/U.
 
Mathman,
I must disagree with your assertion that barrel length is somewhat a fad. By definition, a fad is short-lived and without basis in the object's qualities. I shot my first Skeet match 45-years ago as noob at a club fun shoot and was pleased to win one of the rookie trophies with a 26-inch O/U. In the mid '80s, I switched to a O/U Skeet gun with 28-inch barrels -- my latest O/U Skeet gun acquisition has 30-inch barrels. I wouldn't call those short-lived decisions.

For many years, Skeet guns and 26-inch barrels went hand in hand. Back in the day, noobs were taught to swing through their target and shoot when the lead was right. The average shooter started with his gun close to the window and wanted a short barreled gun that would allow him to accelerate quickly to pick up the target. It was no fad that folks preferred the 26-inch barrels -- those who shot with them got the winning scores.

Over the years the more experienced shooters found they could shoot better scores using a sustained lead. Using it, a slightly longer barrel would reward you with higher scores because it was more stable. You no longer needed the quick acceleration of the 26-inch barrel with the sustained lead method.

For 20-years I shot swing through with 26-barrels. My best score remained unchanged for years. My 98s got me classified AA with the NSSA, but didn't win much. I'd peaked, so I switched to 28-in barrels and the sustained lead method and was soon shooting 100-straights.

Mathman (and mete), try the trap field, after some singles (16-yard) go back to the 27-yard line. You'll soon appreciate the importance of the longer trap barrel. But, in this application the long barrel isn't to provide a smoother swing, at 27-yards gun movement is minimal -- the longer barrel provides an increased sighting radius for better accuracy. It's almost like the difference between sighting a pistol and sighting a rifle.

For some new shooters, barrel selection may be based on the tacti-cool fad in SD/HD guns. But, for the comp shooters, experienced hunters and informed noobs barrel selection is based on proven results not fads.
Tom Knapp doesn't use a long barreled shotgun for all his trick shooting. (24" barrel if I'm not mistaken) He is pretty good.
Click to expand...
"Trick" is the operative word. If you're shooting your own hand tossed targets -- it's a different environment and a different barrel is appropriate. Check out Tom Knapp shooting in the field and you'll see he uses the same long barrel as the rest of the hunters. If you want to shoot trick targets with a short barrel, then I wish you luck and have a ton of fun. But, please don't tell the noobs it's the only way to go.

Tom Knapp with a full sized barrel
knapp.png
 
I don't think I suggested that it was the only way to go...just that it is a way to go.

I have an OU 26" that I really like...and its overall length is about 1 1/2 inches more than my 21" Benelli Field. They swing about the same as well since I have a mag ext on the Benelli. So, for me there is consistency in using these two types of guns.

Again, I say that it is my personal preference...as I have had (and still have) shotguns with different lengths of barrels. It's just that the long barrels (28" +) are a bit heavy and cumbersome for my liking.

As always, I would recommend someone to try out different guns and barrel lengths to see what suits them.

Thanks for all the great info (zippy13)...you are no doubt far more experienced in clay shooting than me.
 
I'm 6'4", what would you recommend for a first gun that could do it all? A 26" 870 sound good?

For the wife it will just be a challenge
 
Teirst, at 6'-4", you'd probably be well served with a 28" barrel. An advantage of the 870 is the available of various barrels that don't need to be fitted by a gunsmith. For your wife, she might be happier with a gas operated semi-auto that will offer reduced recoil. These days, the Beretta is the benchmark auto. It's replaced the Remington 1100 as the comp gun of choice.
 
Mathman,
Sorry it I misinterpreted your previous recommendation. It's nice to see someone who actually uses his SD/HD guns. Judging by your target tossin' gear, I suspect the wear marks on your SD/HD gun aren't from dry firing. Far too many folks buy a similar shotgun, fire a few rounds and then relegate it to Closet Queen status.
 
Last edited:
I am sure she would be happiest with the semi-auto but the extra price tag that comes with them forces me to shy away. At least until I am a bit sure this is something we will stick to.

I would love to buy her a 26" 20ga o/u but the price that comes with a nice one is kinda scary. Maybe i will just get the 26-28 first and let her try that out and see what she thinks.

EDIT: would love to get this guy down from 375 to 300

http://www.msgunowners.com/guns-for...and-extra-buck-barrel-price-reduced-t7025.htm

right in my neck of the woods
 
I'm not sure where your at but in my area I see and have purchased, used 1100's in good condition for under $400. Usually in the $300-$350 range, occasionally I see them around $250. Winchester auto's seem to be pretty inexpensive on the used market too. Don't overlook used guns, shotguns tend to be shot very little by those who don't hunt and it's easy to find a nice used model.
 
As has been belabored, a longer barrel assists in smoothing out your swing and follow through on flying targets, whether hunting or clay shooting. For a defensive shotgun, barrel length beyond about 18-20" serves no useful purpose and most feel it becomes a significant hindrance after about 22-24"...all individual preference, of course. Can you use your 32" barreled shotgun to defend yourself? Of course, but all those extra inches aren't buying you anything except less manuverability. Choke, however, plays a major role in whatever use you put your shotgun to, with Cyl or Imp Cyl the most popular for defensive guns.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top