Why Sporterize Milsurp Rifles?

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Mosin-Marauder

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I was at a gun shop the other day and I saw this beautiful Spanish Mauser. Needless to say it was only beautiful until I saw the rest of it. It's stock had been cut down the the front barrel band, it's receiver looked sanded, and the barrel had some work done to it. It just confuses me why someone would do this. Cut down a beautiful rifle just to get some sort of ugly stick out of it. Not to mention the unmitigated gall of destroying a piece of history just to turn it into some ugly imitation deer rifle. Now don't get me wrong, some of these sporters actually look beautiful, like the Sporter job midway did on a Mauser. But I would never hack up a milsurp rifle that may have saved the life of someone or ended the life of another. Sorry for the rant. What's your opinion on these hacked up rifles?
 
I won't do it, and I don't like to see it done. But opinions vary not only from person to person but decade by decade influences those thoughts too. I think it's less popular now overall- but years ago, when some of these milsurps were brought in- there was very limited ammo, no scope mounts, and no other accessories available. Flash forward a few years, ammo showed up, shop and machine classes taught more hand skills and a lot of rifles were re-done in highschool shop classes. A few years later, ammo got plentiful and importation of certain things started leveling out or even falling- maybe different reasons to modify, maybe not. In the past 20 years, we realized those who carried the WWII milsurps were disappearing kinda fast & we developed an appreciation for things left original. And too about that time, the fascination with all things tactical started coming about- so many had to run out and make something tactical. And that only grew so more folks from all over the world started making all sorts of accessories. For many, prior to 30-40 years ago remember 1903's, 1917's, Krags, M1 Carbines, Mausers, Carcanos, maybe arisakas being sold out of plastic trash cans seldom for more than $20. They sat around with the owners not realizing that in a few years the original values would double many times over so the owners dug them out of closets, passed them down, whatever- and out came the hacksaws. And probably an untold number of times- some guy with limited skills and knowledge just wanted to make what he had (all he had) better for the task at had. Believe it or not, but there's those who look at just about any rifle and see it as nothing more than a tool. ( I said that lightheartedly ya'll)

Does that sum it up just a little guys? I know it's been discussed here over the years, and that's pretty much what I came away with and learned.
 
At one time these surplus guns were an economical way for a guy who couldn't afford (at the time) a new $98.00 Winchester 94 or a $125.00 Remington 700 to have a gun he could hunt with.

Spanish Mausers in particular, were generally considered to be just one step above a Carcano and could be had for $20.00.

Obviously a guy on a limited budget could buy one, cut the stock and have an economy sporter.

During the "golden age" of surplus in the '50s and '60s, these guns weren't collector's items; They were leftover war surplus and cheap alternatives to expense domestic sporting guns.

One of the reasons the domestic gun producers supported the Gun Control Act of 1968 was for "trade protectionism." They couldn't compete with the flood of surplus weapons that came into the U.S.

Today, our population is over 300,000,000, interest in so-called "collectible" weapons has skyrocketed and original old weapons such as you describe have disappeared into collections. What's left are guns that Bubba chopped decades ago.
 
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ok well this comes from both a purist and as someone that has "hacked up a priceless piece of history". I am a purist first and foremost. I searched for 3 years to find a m1917 and ran through about 4 that were sporterized to every one that wasn't and because they weren't sporterized they were selling for way above market value. I have seen springfields that were reduced to complete piles of crap, one was a 1903 MK1 that belonged to a friend that had been drilled and tapped so many times that no gunsmith within 100 miles would touch it. I turned it into a "reproduction" 1903A4 sniper and he loves it. I found a 1903A4 action and I built it into a complete restoration piece.

on the opposite side of that coin I have completely bubba'd the heck out of a mosin nagant 91/30 and despite dumping 5 times the rifle's total value it was never a decent rifle. I have built a pile of hot garbage out of a enfield number 4 "T" receiver.

with all that said. until the 90s, nobody looked at these rifles as priceless pieces of history. they were looked at as pieces of cheap garbage that you bought out of a barrel at the local sears store. they cost a fraction of what a factory built hunting rifle cost. the problem with those cheap pieces of junk was that they weren't scope ready and they were heavier by far than your average hunting rifle so people would cut them down and drill and tap them to make them effective as a SPORTER rifle hence the term SPORTERIZING.

in the end, it is their property and they can do as they see fit.

and sorry I can't resist.
Agent_Smith2_zps88f08524.jpg
 
When done right a sporter can be a pretty nice rifle. Generally "done right" means a new stock - not a cut down one, and propper trimmings. I have two sporters - one is a La Coruna Masuer with a new walnut stock. It has had the bolt forged down, has been drilled and tapped, and has been reblued. I also have a Turkish Mauser that has had the bolt forged down, drilled/tapped, been rebarreled to .257 Roberts, and has a new Myrtle stock.

Here's the basic jist of it though: they made millions of these things. Most of these milsurps were made in numbers FAR surpassing commercial sporter rifles that no one would bat an eye at modifying. They also really aren't worth that much. Most of the rifles that have "gone up in value" to be "worth something" have barely creeped up to match what a run of the mill used .30-06 would cost.

Don't get me wrong - I own a good # of original condition milsurps - but I certainly am not going to pretend that they're rare jewels.
 
Butchering abd "bubbaing" are not the same as custom work.
Done right a true custom rifle made on a military action is a vast improvement, but it's got to be done right.
Here is an Obendorf 1909 Mauser




Does anyone think it's butchered?
 
Exactly- the term you're looking for is bubba'd.

I'm not surprised that stockmaking and real sporterizing are dying arts, but they are still art when done right.
 
It is hard to understand now how this could happen, but back before 1968 you could buy all kinds of guns mail order for cheap.

klein.jpg


Here is a 1960 ad for a Spanish Mauser sportster for $22.95. You could buy them altered.

SEAPORT%20TRADER%20AD%20SEPT%201960%2096%20DPI.jpg


So, what you are seeing was a common way for companies to sell a product to be used in that time period, not someone screwing up history.

They did the same thing with WWII vehicles, making tanks into crawling drill rigs and such.

An original undamaged is now worth more than a salad made up of many unmatched parts.
 
A persistent piece of gun culture lore is that the gun companies of the day logrolled to get the ban on military surplus arms included in GCA '68 because it made selling Winchester Model 70s a lot easier when you couldn't just go get a small-ring Mauser out of a barrel at the hardware store for $20.

Look how many people in recent times fruited up their SKS with pages 1, 4, and 7-12 inclusive, of the Tapco catalog rather than save up the money and buy the AR or AK they really wanted.
 
Done right a true custom rifle made on a military action is a vast improvement, but it's got to be done right.
Here is an Obendorf 1909 Mauser
Click to expand...

True, but there's still no reason (do you need to save a couple hundred on the action vs. a custom action when you're spending $10 or $20K on customizing? I don't think so).

Well, no reason NOWadays.

Power, I think I just threw up in my mouth a little, looking at those prices. Gee, thanks for the reminder. :)
 
The Kleins ad show the ultimate Bubba gun...

The Smith & Wesson snubby revolver with the ejector rod hanging in space.

That was a British .380/200 supplied to the British and then "converted" to .38 Special by reaming the cylinder and lopping off the barrel.

Yikes.
 
I know through the 60,s and 70,s alot of folks would would butcher a nice Mil Surp rifle just to try to keep from looking like they hunted with a Surplus Rifle . Now days many shooters know the history and value of keeping them original . There are a few shooters that just like to add thier own touch to what they shoot and carve them up . I lucked out and went to a local pawn shop just as the owner was putting out a SMLE mk III* because the owner didnt pick it up and I offered him $80 for it . He said thats more than I have in it and handed it to me . The only changes made were some one removed the nose cone and front forarm wood and barrel band . I think I remember early competition shooters doing this to help " float " the barrel and improve acuracy .
 
I bought rifles out of a 55 gallon drum at Gibson's dept store for 15.00 in the early 70's. I don't like military dressed bolt actions and would much rather have a sporterized one. I need to finish the stock for my G33/40 mountain rifle one of these days.
 
Those prices aren't nearly as cheap as they appear.
At the time of those ads, a decent job paid $60 a week.
Gas was 25 cents a gallon, and a steak dinner in a high class restaurant was $5.
So, it's doubtful people home gunsmithed their weapons just because they were cheap and of low value.
They weren't.
 
True, but there's still no reason (do you need to save a couple hundred on the action vs. a custom action when you're spending $10 or $20K on customizing? I don't think so).

Well, no reason NOWadays.-________________________________

Unlicensed, I disagree. You see, I almost always find "bubbaed" military rifles and buy them. That's what I build my rifles from. So there is a VERY GOOD reason to do such work.

#1. I am improving the situation a lot by doing some work on old guns that have already been chopped. There are lots of them out there.
#2. In most cases, the actions we can buy new today are not as classy or in many cases not as well made as those made in the 30 and 20s.
There are a few new ones that are just as good, but they come in rifles that are very fine and need no work in the first place
 
g.willikers, remember that the milsurps were (roughly) $20 rifles, but a Model 70 cost three or four times as much. I recall a WW II-era ad in the American Rifleman for the Model 70 at $54. Post-war, more.

And when I got into the centerfire business some 60+ years ago, the millions of milsurps were in no way "collectibles". In the 1950s/1960s, neither were Ferraris.
 
Hawg Haggen said:
I need to finish the stock for my G33/40 mountain rifle one of these days.
Click to expand...

There are probably more sporterized than unsporterized G33s now, which is why the un-cut ones go for about what I paid for my '99 Subaru... :eek:
 
Because you can?

We like to tinker with things. Fiddling around with a mosin that cost less than $100 bucks sure does satisfy the itch to create the 'ultimate' Sasquatch hunting rifle.
 
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