Why on earth did Ruger abandon the Old Army!

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deerslayer303

New member
I'm sitting here just reading and I got to thinking. Seems to me that Pietta and Uberti sell a ton of revolvers. So why do you think Ruger abandoned its Old Army! It doesn't seem to me that the thing had any less of a following than the reproductions. Was it the price point? Just curious. I think this cap n ball thing is alot more popular than I ever thought it was.
 
My best guess it that the company felt it didn't sell enough to justify producing it.
The death of Bill Ruger might also have had something to do with it.
 
+1 to BLE . . . . .yes, there is no doubt that the ROA was/is a good BP handgun but I think you have a number of factors that enter in to it . . . . first, did the sales really warrant the manufacturer of it by Ruger. Second . . . there's the price of a ROA . . . it's was more than the price of the Italian copies . . . yes you can argue "quality" . . . but it all boils down to the price of the handgun being low enough that most folks can afford to buy one and get in to shooting.

A good example - the Ruger Single Six or the Ruger Bearcat - pricey and a lot of folks don't have that kind of $ to shell out for a handgun . . . but, they can for a Heritage Rough Rider at less than $200 (versus $500). Can you compare quality? Probably not but the lower priced one allows a person to shoot and have fun and not have to do without milk and eggs.

I'm not knocking Ruger for dropping it or their prices nor am I knocking Heritage - I own Rugers and a Heritage RR and love them all.

A lot of folks also lean towards the Italian as they are at least somewhat "historically correct" while the ROA is an animal of it's own design. Makes a diffeence on the use you have for it - if you're a hunter or serious target shooter - you would probably like the ROA - if you are a reenact, Civil War Buff, Old West Buff, etc. - they you'd lean towards the Italian copies to be more historically correct.

Another factor is that the way things are now, I'm sure Ruger can produce and sell more units of their cartridge firearms than they can if they re-introduced the ROA. If you've got plenty of orders for modern handguns and rifles and can keep your people more than busy building them - you're main aim will be to introduce new designs and models that will sell to a broader customer base.
 
After about 40 years in production the market was pretty saturated with used ROA's that probably hurt the sale of new ones.
And ROA wasn't as popular as it once was because of the good quality and low prices of the Italian imports.
Well, except that the stainless imports seem to be priced relatively high.
 
When you think about it...

....The size of the market for the ROA was and perhaps still is quite small.

It was a handgun that could not be used by reenactors.

It had a mystique for hunters but IIUC the season during which a cap and ball handgun could be used for hunting is and always was quite short in a substantial section of the U.S. I know that in Chester County, PA, you had the option to hunt with primative weapons or with bow for one day and most cartridge or shotgun hunters opted for the bow. I can not say for sure that the ROA was considered a primative weapon in PA.

It never was a serious contender for self defense or home defense even though there is plenty of rationale for applying it to those tasks.

It is not a pistol that appeals to the tinkerers because they don't break and if they do, the revolver is expensive enough that folks just bought the parts from Ruger and fixed it. I've owned a total of three and never had to do anything to them.

Price was at the high end of the C/B revolver spectrum as "BBB" said so this alone reduced the size of the market.

Indeed I wonder that Ruger decided to market the revolver in the first place and that it lasted as long as it did.

I bought my first one sometime around 1985 in Naples, Italy for 85.00. I gave it as a gift NIB to one of the finest gentlemen I ever met. I own two now and I won't part with either of them. I am always in the market for additional specimens even though I don't shoot the ones I have very much.

They are like an ugly flat chested girlfriend. Looks fade, flesh sags but the qualities that matter endure. You love them for right reasons.
 
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Indeed I wonder that Ruger decided to market the revolver in the first place and that it lasted as long as it did.
Click to expand...

I have heard that it was one of Bill Ruger's pet gun designs.
That's why the demise of Bill Ruger may have had something to do with it.
Sort of the same situation at FoMoCo, they had to wait till Henry Ford I died before they could drop the flathead V-8. Although, the ROA has far fewer design flaws than the old Ford flathead V-8 did.
 
Price was the deciding factor for me

When I first got into C&B shooting I was looking for a good revolver and looked at the ROA. Since the Pietta 58 Remington clone was cheaper, that ended up being my first gun. I've always wanted a ROA over the years and every time I start thinking about one I look at the prices and talk myself out of it, or I start saving up for one and end up needing my cash stash for something practical like tires for my wifes car or something like that. I rarely hear a bad word about the ROA though and if I caught one at the right price, I'd snatch it up in a heartbeat...provided I'm not broke at that moment. :rolleyes:
 
It's really very simple.

Ruger changed manufacturing policies to more modern methods. Specifically, they used to tool up for a certain model and then run a complete year's production of that model at one time, storing everything that didn't have a buyer in a warehouse. Then they'd tool up for another model and run that model's year long supply. In order to use this philosophy economically, you need to have a very good estimate of your sales for the upcoming year, and thus of the price point each model will sell for.

The change was to a more modern plan, based on the 'just in time' philosophy: manufacture each model just ahead of the next month's supply requirements. That requires a very flexible production and supplier line but is less expensive and less risky to operate.

Ruger recognized that the ROA required a larger set of unique tools and support equipment than other models, and they determined that the resources could better be used making other models. Using a 'just in time' philosophy for the ROA kept manufacturing resources tied up and not usable on better selling, more profitable models.

Bill Ruger's passing may have made the decision available, but what really killed the ROA, and what will likely keep it out of production, was the switchover to a new production line philosophy.
 
That is the first time I knew of Mykeal's explanation....

...And it makes complete sense on multiple levels.
 
I think we might all be involved in a civil war re-enactment if the government continues to adopt Nazi & quasi Communist policies...FWIW
 
All of you guys' rationale makes alot of sense. But what ever the reason. I STILL emailed the CEO and expressed my concern for a reintroduction :D. I'm a fan of the ROA, It is a pistol of modern times, and who knows maybe ONE day IT TOO will be reproduced by an italian firm.
 
I suspect that Ruger's legal staff won't allow them to reintroduce it unless they come up with a transfer bar safety system for cap and ball revolvers.

Ruger ain't a cottage industry anymore and that means lawyers go after them. There's a reason that most traditional style muzzleloaders today are the product of a cottage industry. Corporations that are worth suing won't touch them with a ten foot pole. There's just too many ways idiots can hurt themselves with them.
 
Actually, the transfer bar design does play a significant role in the demise of the ROA. See post #8 above. Not including the transfer bar made the changeover from other revolvers more complicated and expensive.
 
Too bad Ruger doesn't make a black powder based on the Super Blackhawk frame. Just get rid of the ejector rod and require the cylinder to be loaded outside of the frame like the Uberti Cattlemen.
 
Too bad Ruger doesn't make a black powder based on the Super Blackhawk frame

Might outdo the walker for powder charge...could 60grs fit in a cylinder that size? If it would, just think of the muzzle blast! It would be impressive! :D
 
i started shooting black powder in the early 60,s and went thru several italian 58 remingtons and 60 armies untill i found ones the ran right and stocked up on a few main springs,bolt lock up springs and flat hand springs as they were prone to break. they were cheap because of the value of the dollar was high and now with the value of the dollar at a long time low the repo,s are very costly. i own several 58,s and one good 60 army along with three ROA,s and love them all. eastbank.
 
Logan - after I wrote that suggestion, I decided why not incorporate what Mykeal said and send it to the CEO of Ruger? We'll see in a few years if Ruger makes a Super Black Hawk cap 'n ball.
 
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