Why not a 100% polymer pistol?
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GgnubrKihn
New member
And where the heck are those ceramic barrels? This is the 21st century you know (well it will be in less than a year!?!)... .
[This message has been edited by GgnubrKihn (edited January 03, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by GgnubrKihn (edited January 03, 2000).]
James Montes
New member
As much as some folks want it to be, polymer is not STEEL...
There have been all polymer and ceramic weapons. 1 version was made for the CIA to use for "black ops". It used glass projos that were filled with a toxin. Its springs were made with rubber bands. The Congress told the CIA to destroy them in the 70's, during all the hearings on how "evil" the CIA was. If a company made them today the gun grabbers would have a heyday. Remember all the nonsense that came up about the Glocks "that could pass through metal detectors and be used by skyjackers."
Unfortunately, there are very real reasons why you will never see an auto with a polymer or titanium slide.
First, the small print on Glock ads will tell you that the strength comparison is pound for pound, which really doesn't mean anything. It does bear on the discussion, though.
The focus of handgun design in auto's is the feeding cycle and the mass of the slide. If the slide is overly lightened, the pistol will not feed or extract reliably.
The kinetic energy from the firing of the bullet is converted into motion of the slide of the pistol. if the slide is too light, this means that the slide moves faster. If the slide moves fast enough, the new round can't move up fast enough from the magazine and feeding will be a problem, as well as extraction.
You might think this would be easy to fix, just beef up springs, but if you are into physics(not too many people are), you can figure out that a moving mass has more energy than a reasonable spring can store.
If the only way to rack the slide was to fire a round, the pistol wouldn't be very popular no matter how light it was.
There are other structural problems, the slide locked to the barrel is what contains the chamber pressure from firing, but basically this covers the main problems involved. Hope this helps.
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With my shield or on it...
First, the small print on Glock ads will tell you that the strength comparison is pound for pound, which really doesn't mean anything. It does bear on the discussion, though.
The focus of handgun design in auto's is the feeding cycle and the mass of the slide. If the slide is overly lightened, the pistol will not feed or extract reliably.
The kinetic energy from the firing of the bullet is converted into motion of the slide of the pistol. if the slide is too light, this means that the slide moves faster. If the slide moves fast enough, the new round can't move up fast enough from the magazine and feeding will be a problem, as well as extraction.
You might think this would be easy to fix, just beef up springs, but if you are into physics(not too many people are), you can figure out that a moving mass has more energy than a reasonable spring can store.
If the only way to rack the slide was to fire a round, the pistol wouldn't be very popular no matter how light it was.
There are other structural problems, the slide locked to the barrel is what contains the chamber pressure from firing, but basically this covers the main problems involved. Hope this helps.
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With my shield or on it...
Frank the Spank
New member
Can they make guns out of candy?
So I can shoot and then lick it clean
So I can shoot and then lick it clean
As I understand, polymers just don't have the strength, durability, or resilience to withstand the force of a bullet explosion and the violent recoil of the slide. It would probably crack after 50, 100, 200 rounds. Just conjecture.
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The Seattle SharpShooter
If it can't shoot jacketed rat turds powered by mouse farts, I ain't gonna shoot it!
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The Seattle SharpShooter
If it can't shoot jacketed rat turds powered by mouse farts, I ain't gonna shoot it!
It is pretty simple , steel is stronger than plastic. I love my glock , but the fact is that I don't hear about a lot of broken steel guide rods, but the glock guide rods should come in a bucket full with every gun. The polymer grip offers great scratch protection and is hard to hurt . I have not heard much about plastic springs being popular either.
thequickad
New member
Artech, good explaination, how about caseless ammunitions? Wouldn't that help? You can also supplement the feeding by using motorized magazines and not just rely on spring tension alone.
Ah, yeah, but you were going to polymer to save weight, right?
It might be possible in a gas operated pistol like the desert eagle, but not in a recoil operated pistol, as the mass of the slide would not be sufficient to feed rounds either, especially caseless ammo.
By the time you got done solving all the mass/energy problems, the pistol would most likely weigh more than a standard unit.
It could be done if you wanted to throw several million dollars into the project, develop your own type of caseless ammo, find a manufacturer to make both the ammo and pistol, and then nobody would buy it because it's different and expensive.
Just my opinion, but I've seen it happen with good firearms ideas before. Remember the Bren 10? The Dardick? The H&K G-11?
It might be an interesting design project, but not a commercial pistol.
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"We all have it coming, kid..." Clint Eastwood, Unforgiven
It might be possible in a gas operated pistol like the desert eagle, but not in a recoil operated pistol, as the mass of the slide would not be sufficient to feed rounds either, especially caseless ammo.
By the time you got done solving all the mass/energy problems, the pistol would most likely weigh more than a standard unit.
It could be done if you wanted to throw several million dollars into the project, develop your own type of caseless ammo, find a manufacturer to make both the ammo and pistol, and then nobody would buy it because it's different and expensive.
Just my opinion, but I've seen it happen with good firearms ideas before. Remember the Bren 10? The Dardick? The H&K G-11?
It might be an interesting design project, but not a commercial pistol.
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"We all have it coming, kid..." Clint Eastwood, Unforgiven