Why no....

P

Pond James Pond

New member
...SA's with a swing out crane and cylinder?

I understand the difference in trigger function between a DA/SA and an SA, but I don't understand why the SA trigger should exclude the swing out crane feature.

Is it just a question of keeping with Colt SAA styling and heritage?
Is there really a reason why the two features are incompatible?
Or is it just that there is no market?

Just another of my "why no..?" curiosity moments.
 
Apples and Oranges

Is it just a question of keeping with Colt SAA styling and heritage? .... Mostly
Is there really a reason why the two features are incompatible? ....... Yes, They don't look right
Or is it just that there is no market? ...... Limited Market.

Now, there have been attempts and one that comes to mind, is the High Standard, Double-Nine.
Frankly I like things just the way they are. Every time I see anything that is not in the spirit of the SA, I cringe. I don't even care for the Single-9's or whatever. .... :eek:

JMHO and;
Be Safe !!!
 
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Howdy

When I was a kid there were double action High Standard revolvers with swing out cylinders styled to look like a single action revolver.

It really gets back to how popular single action revolvers became back in the 1950s. During WWII Colt stopped producing the Single Action Army. After the GIs came home, suddenly everybody had a TV in their living room and there were lots of cowboys riding into everybody's living room. It fueled a huge resurgence in popularity of the old single action revolvers. After WWII Colt was not going to begin producing the SAA again but a young man named Bill Ruger started producing his Single Six and he could not keep up with demand. So Colt started producing the SAA again in 1956. All this pent up demand led High Standard to modify one of their inexpensive, 22 caliber, swing out cylinder, double action revolvers to look like a cowboy gun.

It all gets back to that resurgence of popularity of the single action design. Before WWII, nobody wanted the old Colts.

Why no swing out single action revolver today? Probably not enough demand.
 
Most people that like a single-action revolver, like them just the way they are. I have never had to use a weapon in self defense so my next statement is simply my opinion: A single-action is probably adequate for self defense since no one wants to get shot and the matter is likely to be resolved with very few, if any, shots fired. Thus, the slow reloading time is probably irrelevant. For a handgun in the woods, single actions are great. When are you going to need more than 5 or 6 shots in a hurry with a quick reload? I think never. Obviously, in a war kind of situation where desperate combat is the norm, the single action is very obsolete. But for my purposes, as a back-country/wilderness gun when I hike into a remote trout lake, it's exactly what I want. It fits my lifestyle. I don't even own a Glock or AR-whatever. When I go to the woods I like rolling the calendar backwards. The single-action works for me. Plus, without going to extremes, the single-action will handle more power comfortably than many other types. They hearken back to a more golden time. There is a Super Backhawk or Vaquero out there somewhere just waiting for you......
 
There is another exception to this rule other than the aforementioned High Standard and it sums up the questions nicely as well.

Yes, most single action guns are built and bought for nostalgia. Therefore, the old ejector rod system is used to mimic the style of the old guns.

Nowadays, most people who want to use a revolver for self defense choose a modern, double action with a swing out cylinder because the average person can shoot and reload them faster.

That being said, an interesting thing happened a couple years back. NAA introduced their series of extremely small single action revolvers in .22 and .22 Magnum. People with an interest in concealed carry found them very appealing for back-up guns or BTAS guns (that's an acronym I just invented that means "Better Than A Stick"). These folks could carry them in any dress, just about anywhere. But these little guns, which were probably originally developed as a novelty more than anything, were a pain in butt to reload. Being the smart folks they are, NAA released the Sidewinder, a single action with a swing-out cylinder.

See, the NAA revolvers aren't really being purchased for nostalgia, and their size is so small that making them double action would be impractical, if not impossible. This story just shows that it took a lot of stars aligning and a bunch of weird circumstances for another single action gun to be released with a swing out cylinder. I doubt it will ever happen again.
 
There are top break revolvers, like the Schofield and the Enfields and the side swing out Merwin Hulbert.

Since you can take a swing out cylinder design, like the da S&W for example, and fire it exclusively single action seems that you kinda have what you want right there.

But on the original question...it's mostly a matter of how things happened. The appearance of the double action revolver and swing out cylinders were closely related. To get a reliable and working da revolver the entire shape of the guns had to be changed. Once the da revolver was established the tech on single action guns settled in place for a long period of time.

tipoc
 
Must it look like a Colt 1873 Single Action Army?

If not, both Colt and Smith & Wesson made single action versions of their Officer's Model Match and Masterpiece hand ejector revolvers. The only difference was in the hammer and possibly the trigger.

Likewise Harrington & Richardson made single action top-breaks long after Smith & Wesson had gone on to (almost) all double action hand ejectors.

One ammunition company exhibition shooter of the 1930s had a custom built revolver with SAA grip frame, hammer and trigger and S&W yoke and cylinder. He was long accustomed to the handling of the SAA but needed to be able to reload faster to keep the audience interested.

Hamilton Bowen has altered a SAA to a Lift Out, not swing out, cylinder in the manner of an old Sedgley custom conversion.

Demand for this sort of stuff was small to one-off, but the answer to why NOBODY ever did it is that they actually DID.
 
There have been foreign revolvers made to look like the Colt SAA but which had side swing cylinders. They worked OK (quality was not high, though) and there is nothing against such a design. FWIW, the Winchester revolvers erroneously attributed to Hugo Borchardt were single action, with a side swing cylinder. S&W also made a version of the K-38 which was single action only, but it was merely a modification of the standard DA revolver.

As others have said, the idea of a single action has become so intertwined with the general Colt SAA format that I can't conceive of any other form of single action revolver gaining any market share at this point.

Jim
 
single action revolvers today are not intended for fast shooting in real life self defense and criminal attack. this does not mean some don't use them for such, its just not the manufactures intent.

since self defense shooting is not the intended use by the manufactures there is no perceived need for speed reloading.
 
That is an intriguing question. Truth be known, I shoot all my double actions as single, so it is sort of the same concept, as if there was no double action option. I understand I should be practicing double action for at least high stress, shoot fast and often situations. I am working on that, going through the stable for guns that need a DA trigger job.

On my single actions, I like the look and feel of them, especially the reduced size, 38 Specials; but am concerned about reloading them as carry guns. Maybe I'll need to make up some dummy rounds for reloading practice.
 
there are double actions with single action design / looks... ( I have an Iver Johnson like is listed below

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=456710249

the only single action I know of with a swing out cylinder is the NAA Sidewinder... which is a pretty cool newly manufactured gun...

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=457262379

this one has better pictures... I'm still not sure if it has a typical swing out cylinder extractor star or ??? it looks like it does

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=457136846
 
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There are top break revolvers, like the Schofield and the Enfields and the side swing out Merwin Hulbert.
Click to expand...




The Merwin Hulbert cylinder does not swing out to the side.

merwinhulbert02_zps095ad6b6.jpg




The MH's claim to fame was the unique way the barrel unlatched and rotated 90 degrees around the cylinder arbor. Once the barrel had rotated both the barrel and cylinder were pulled forward to unload it.

merwinhulbertopen_zps43b064c0.jpg




Loading was accomplished through a sliding side loading gate, not much different than most other single action revolvers. Except with a Merwin you load two, skip one, and load three more, while with a Colt you load one, skip one, and load four more. You must load the Merwin through the side loading gate, you cannot reload while the gun is open.

merwinhulbertloadinggate_zps1eadd071.jpg




Although the parts are not interchangeable, the lockwork inside a Merwin Hulbert works exactly the same as the lockwork in a #3 Smith and Wesson.

hammerdown_zps724e7237.jpg


hammerdown_zpsf273b63e.jpg
 
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