Why isn't .38 Webley (200 grain lead) load popular?

Oleg Volk

Staff Alumnus
I looked up the equivalent .38 spl load and came up with 200 grain semi-wadcutter or round nose soft lead bullet at 780-800fps. Given that the load was reputed to be quite effective when first developed for .38 Webleys, I am surprised it is not more popular. Low muzzle flash and relatively quiet (subsonic) report with decent stopping power...recoil couldn't be that bad. What gives?

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Oleg

http://dd-b.net/RKBA
 
In the seventies, I used to buy a 200 gr. factory "bluff nosed" round in .38 Spl.(made by Winchester, I think). I never used it on game, but in plinking, it was very accurate in my two .38's at the time, a Charter Arms snub and a Smith 6" K frame. I liked it, but I think it was discontinued years ago.

The trend beginning about then and since is to faster, lighter bullets, beginning with the old Super Vel line.

The 200 gr. British load was the substitute designed to replace the old .455 revolver round. The heavy, slow mentality was prevalent at the time and still has a remnant of supporters today.

Now, the high velocity, lighter bullets with rapid and controlled expansion are the rule of the day, because of the emphasis on defense and the studies done with gelatin and the tests of the FBI. Penetration is judged optimized for shooting human targets at far less than a heavier, non-expanding bullet will provide.

A heavy bulleted .38 Spl. round might have applications, but convincing the factories to produce it would be all but impossible in today's circumstances. Handloading is your answer, if you can locate a source for the heavy bullets or a mould to cast them in.

Oh, BTW, I just remembered that the "Old Western Scrounger" a few years ago sold some of the old style, heavy, "manstopper" rounds imported from Europe at atrocious prices. They might still have some for sale, if your bank account can handle the freight.

Hope this helps.
 
I am thinking of reloading a few rounds for use in a S&W Bodyguard. Unfortunately, I do expect the bullets to imact rather too high...will see.
 
This 200 grain slug was rather slow and to be blunt the gun rags killed it dead in the 60's with reports of the slugs bouncing off of windshields etc. The slug got a real bad deal. You saw articles talking about thugs soaking up a dozen without effect etc. Everybody wanted the high speed hollowpoints. Now we have them and we find they don't work a whole lot better and thugs still soak up numerous rounds with no effect etc.
The 200 grainers will shoot high because of the slow speed. They do give you more recoil and most slugs are round nose or close to it. If they were in soft lead, SWC design and a hollowpoint they'd be rather nasty. But trying to get the velocity up isn't that easy without heavy recoil. In a small frame gun it could get ugly. I have shot some Webley's with the british version of this load and it is rather mild. I used to reload for the .38 W&W and used standard 158 grain round nose .357 diameter slugs. Saw no real problem with accuracy at normal ranges.
There are probably better choices for self defense but I assure you the load is far from anemic as some might make you think.
 
There seems to be a little confusion here, the original round for the Webley Mk.IV was indeed the 38/200 as stated but that's .38 S&W not .38 Special, the former round being significantly less powerful than .38 spl. Actual velocities for the original round were a miserable 600 fps, currently available .38 S&W rounds at 146 gr clock 645 fps giving just 150 ft/lbs or energy, .38 spl with the same bullet weight will better 200 lbs at around 800 fps. British soldiers that were issued with the gun (and the near identical Enfield No.2) during the period 1938 - 1956 reported that the gun was a poor man stopper with either load. It is interesting to note that the British dropped the 200 grain LRN round in favor of a 178 grain FMJ which was thought to be less lethal and more in keeping with new international treaties on firearms enacted during the 1930's. I also believe that the .455 caliber Mk. VI was the first gun to use hollow points, these being crafted by officers at the front who simply drilled out the nose of LRN's, I'm not sure if any factory produced rounds were ever made. These rounds caused so much tissue damage in Germans who were hit by them, that the Germans issued a warning to the British that any captured soldier found in possession of hollow point .455 rounds would be executed on the spot.

Regards,

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A Person Is Smart
But People Are Stupid

Mike H
 
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