Why is LRN so dirty?

D

DanP

New member
Just curious here:

For target shooting sometimes I use cheaper LRN stuff... just opinions but I find CCI & Winchester to be just passable while S&B and AE are just completely vile.

I'm talking holding my breath between shots and even looking away until the cloud dissipates a bit. Plus I experience a lot more particles blowing out of the cyclinder with those two brands.

Is this the actual bullet itself causing this, or more a matter that the powders used are lesser quality and low cost goes hand in hand with LRN?

In other words, are there reasonable LRN rounds or are they all inherently very dirty, and the fumes related to the bullet not the propellant?
 
Particles blowing out of the cylinder could be powder, or a function of pressure.

Dirty loads are typically the lube, jacketed bullets are typically cleaner as they have no lube to burn in the barrel.
 
That bullet lube is far more dirty than any powder. Suggest trying reloads with plated bullets as a reasonably priced alternative. A lot of companies sell reloads with plated bullets if you don't roll your own.
Take Care
 
Man, it is dirtier firing these LRN .38s! I had some PMCs that I ran through the Police Positive (Special) that I just bought, and I seriously wondered if they hadn't used black powder to load them. This was the first time I'd fired LRN bullets in probably 15 years, so it really stood out.

Huh. You guys think it's the lube . . . okay. I'm just glad I've loaded up a bunch of handloads with Hornady's 158 gr. LSWCHPs - never had a smokeout problem with Hornadys.
 
The lube for plain lead bullets contributes a lot of what you are seeing. However, sometimes ammo with plain lead also uses a very cheap and dirty powder. Rem's UMC brand is the dirtiest (in 38Spl) that I have tried, {US Manufacturers}
 
Lrn

I'm quite sure it's the lube. I use Alox type shooting my 41 and 44 mag. and my hands and gun is dirty after shooting 100 rounds. Sometimes it almost reminds me of shooting black powder due to the cloud of smoke. I just got some lube for LBT which is suppose to be best for not leading and I'll have to see if its as dirty as Alox and hopefully the cloud will be down.

Turk
 
Clean vs. dirty

lead (lube burns) vs. jacketed

older powders (Unique, Red Dot) vs. newer (AA5, V V, Titegroup)

lower pressure (reloads for older guns) vs newer

In my 45 LC Ruger Bisley, 8.0 of Unique is filthy...looks like black. Smoke rolls out, spits "crap". 8.0 of AA5 is cleaner and 10.5 is cleaner yet. Probably should load closer to max, but this is a nice shooting load and dead accurate. NOTE: this load for Ruger ONLY. This load is from newest AA reloading manual.

I used to use bullets that had the blue "crayola" lube and they were real dirty. Now I use Laser Cast that have a clear lube and they're a LOT cleaner. It's all a learning curve.
 
Thanks for the education.

Didn't even know bullets were "lubed" :confused:

So would that be something needed only for lead stuff, or is jacketed stuff lubed as well (even if to a lesser degree)?

I'm sure that I will learn all of this real quick once I grow up and learn about reloading...;)
 
Lead only. As noted above, not all lubes are created equally. Not always easy to tell from just looking at it though.
 
We might do well to remember that when the Alox-beeswax lubes were introduced Harrison of the NRA tech staff proved conclusively that it was possible to overlubricate wadcutters. Assuming use of Alox-beeswax, better accuracy was attained with less lube, the rearmost groove only of the three lube grooves of the H&G #50 or Lyman #358395 or 358495 was filled for top results.

38 cal round nose bullets in the 158 grain weight class, most having only one large groove, produce a condition of gross overlubrication when Alox-beeswax is used. The moulds and swaging equipment have never been changed by the manufacturers to accommodate the Alox-beeswax lubes. Better results can be obtained through experimenting with lubricants, or using a bullet like the NEI 358-167 that has a very small lube groove with Alox-beeswax .

Most powders, when burned at pressures significantly below the balance point, are dirty. It's a matter of degree. Given optimum loading conditions even Bullseye and Unique will burn rather cleanly. But as Redneck2 says, sometimes a dirty load is just plain accurate...

Bob
 
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