Why is Condition One OK w/out strap?

H

Hogballs

Moderator
Been wracking my brain, trying to figure out which DA .45 I should get cuz I don't like the idea of carrying my Detonics cocked 'n' locked without a strap in front of the hammer, and my holster has no strap.

But I've heard from quite a few people that this is OK!

So, today I go out for my afternoon walk and decide to try it out.

I slip on my Smart Carry holster (AKA- The Pubic Pouch), slip my Detonics in and away I go. The darned thing is comfortable! Surprised me.

So anyway I'm walking along, my Detonics slung uncomfortably close to the part of me that is the last part a man would want to loose and I'm thinking about whether it really is safe or not. But the day is too beautiful to ignore and I soon forget my apprehensions.

SO, here's my questions:

1. Is this safe?

2. If so, WHY? Is the thumb safety (the only safety I have on my Detonics) good enough? Or do I need a grip safety?

I must confess, I really enjoyed carrying my 1911 again and would like to continue to do so!

Hog

What is the difference between Al Gore and a puppy?

After 5 weeks the puppy will open its eyes and stop whining...
 
1911s have a thumb and grip safety for the express purpose of carrying cocked and locked. If for some reason the safety got "snicked off" (as discussed in another thread) by accident, the gun still won't go off without pressure on the grip safety.

Some holsters will have the high leather to the inside (by the body) that will develop a groove for the locked safety position if they don't already have one there and you carry in the locked position. This groove will help to prevent the safety from being snicked off.

That being said, as with the Colt Mustang (no grip safety, only thumb) and your gun that only have one safety on the gun, cocked and locked really should have two safeties, IMHO. It may be safe to carry it with one safety, but the Colt company never thought so, nor did most of the clone companies.
 
I believe that both the grip safety and thumb safety on the 1911 were added by JMB at the Army's request.

I carry a Hi-Power in condition one without the benefit of a grip safety and don't have any problems with it. In fact, in the past several years, I have never had the safety disengage unintentionally. Even if the safety were to wipe off, the gun would still need to have the trigger pulled in order to fire. Since practically any good holster will cover the trigger completely, I think concerns about carrying in condition one are probably unwarranted.

For that matter, is anybody aware of any instance of an AD/ND that resulted from condition one carry? Especially one that would have been prevented by a grip safety or one that involved a thumb safety wiping off.

However, I would recommend that you not carry in any fashion that you are uncomfortable with. One thing you might try is an ambi safety. It won't prevent the safety from wiping off (and might even make it easier for that matter) but it will allow you to check whether your safety is engaged by feel with your weapon holstered. I find that the ambi safety on the Hi-Power allows me to discreetly reassure myself that everything is A-OK.
 
I would not carry a Detonics in a Smart Carry holster. If I understand correctly, the Detonics does not have a grip safety. So if the safety should happen to snick itself off, and it will, the trigger is the only thing keeping the gun from firing. The material isn't rigid enough to protect the trigger guard and prevent the gun from accidentally discharging.
 
I carry my Detonics in a holster with a thumb break, and I shoot IDPA with it from a break-less holster. The safety has never worked off, so that doesn't concern me. I pin the grip safeties on my 1911's, so the lack of one on the Detonics also doesn't concern me. One thing that does concern me is the lack of a grip safety tang. The cocked hammer is the rearward-most extension of the gun, and if dropped, the gun could discharge if it lands on the hammer. Essex sells a "grip plate" with a 1911A1-style tang, if you want some protection for the hammer.
 
Sorry to sidestep the topic, but...

Just curious, how do ya like that SmartCarry holster? Been looking for a new way to carry, and I'm asking lots of people...

Just my .02, but I wouldn't feel comfortable personally carrying C&L that close to the family jewels. With that type of holster, I can see things getting pressed and shifted, including safeties, maybe even triggers :eek:
 
Condition one and Smart Carry

My normal carry gun is a H&K USP .45C, carried IWB condition one. When I am forced to carry it in my Smart Carry it is decocked and unlocked.

I have never had any problem with safties wiping off during condition one carry with 1911s, BHPs and USPs carried in PROPERLY FITTED HOLSTERS. I don't consider a generic fit holster like the Smart Carry a properly fitted holster.
 
Just curious, how do ya like that SmartCarry holster? Been looking for a new way to carry, and I'm asking lots of people...

So far I really like it! It's comfortable, doesn't squeeeeze (I have an 8" wide elastic girdle holster you wear around your waist, and it does...) and I really like getting rid of my fanny pack holster.

I wear my Smart Carry with loose/baggy nylon shorts with a t-shirt over the shorts and I don't think you would even notice the slight bulge unless you really knew to look (haven't had anyone ask me yet, "Is that a .45 in your pants or are you just glad to see me?").

Bear in mind, when I wore it the other day, I was hiking up and down hills...not taking a stroll thru the mall...and it was still comfortable!

As for it not being a form fitting holster and the possibility of the thumb safety being accidentally released, it (along with most of the gun) rides inside the pouch which holds the pistol firmly. There is no up and down movement and I really don't see the thumb safety disengaging accidentally...it's plenty stiff (the safety, of course).

I hate wearing pants with belts, which severely limits my choice of holsters. I think the Smart Carry is a great alternative.

One note: I haven't tried driving while wearing the Smart Carry, but supposedly that is quite comfortable too.

Hog

[Edited by Hogballs on 11-29-2000 at 04:05 AM]
 
Well, I plunked down for an HK USP Compact in .45 tonight. Stainless.

I called my local shop and they had both the P245 and the USP Compact in stock, but the P245 was used and on sale (For $400 I later found out) and if I wanted it I'd better hurry.

So, I get down there and start comparing the two. Both feel good in my hand and both seem to be well made, although I thought the HK looked to be a little better gun.

Then one of the salesmen started showing me some of the differences, particularly the ergonomics, and the HK definitely seemed to have better placement of the controls. And the tactical light is too cool, although for $260 I don't think I'll be getting one anytime soon (are there aftermarket lights available cheaper?)

Soooo, in 10 days I will be the proud owner. I think this will make a good all-around carry gun.

I'll still probably get a small 9mm for slipping in my pocket when I go outside at night to take out the trash, put away the birds, etc. Maybe the Kel-Tec...

Hog
 
Condition One is safe if you/we are safe.

When I began carrying a Glock with a round chambered, I felt like I was walking on eggs for a few months. This was actually better in some ways. I knew all the responsibility was on me alone for safety.

Our sense of safety should not be on the mechanical devices of the firearm, but rather on what's between our ears.

Remember the 4 safety rules
(all together now in chorus)
1) All guns are always loaded (this is from the safety standpoint of course)
2) Never point the muzzle at anything you are not willing to destroy
3) Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on target (i.e. you have made a conscious decision to shoot)
4) Be sure of your target and what's beyond.

Follow these and the mechanical safety is just an additional afterthought.

Edmund
 
I'm not sure what the 4 safety rules have to do with this thread or the price of eggs in China.

I'm just worried about the darned hammer slipping and shooting off my manhood and whether or not the thumb safety is adequate to keep this from happening...

Hog
 
Isn't one of the rules "never point a gun at anything you're not willing to destroy?" Sticking a pistol in the front of your pants would violate that rule, in my book. Seriously, in a good holster your safety shouldn't work off, and the trigger will be protected. I don't think I'd put a gun in front, regardless.
 
I was worried too about condition one carry. I kept thinking, what if the safety snicks off? But after reading many posts about this subject and carrying my pistol empty cocked and locked for a couple weeks, I convinced myself it was a safe way to carry. Then, after thinking about it a while, I realized this fact. While the exposed cocked hammer makes the pistol look "unsafe", if the thumb safety snicked off(mine never has), and the grip safety was inadvertently depressed, what you would essentially have is a Glock sans trigger safety. As long as you carry in a secure, formed holster with the trigger completely covered, even with the thumb safety off and the grip safety depressed, you still have to PULL THE TRIGGER. This realization makes me much more comfortable carrying condition one. I carry in a Milt Spark's VM-2, which has complete coverage of the trigger and a leather tab behind the thumb safety to protect it from being disengaged. It's safe as far as I'm concerned.
 
Isn't one of the rules "never point a gun at anything you're not willing to destroy?"

Sticking a pistol in the front of your pants would violate that rule, in my book.

Sure that's the one of the rules, and practically speaking it gets broken every day. Look at the people that shoot themselves while drawing, and if a gun were to go off in just about any holster I'll bet there's a very good chance you could get hit with the bullet.

Soooo, the question remains, is carrying condition one an acceptable risk? Front of the pants, in the waistband, either one could get you shot...

(BTW- The front pouch holster I have doesn't have the gun pointed at your genitals...)

Hog
 
One size does not fit all

Hogballs:

If you really feel uncomfortable with the safety on and a cartridge chambered without a holster strap impeding the hammer, and given that you feel that allowing a firearm to point at sensitive objects/body parts is normal, for you I'd say carry with the chamber empty, safety off. (i.e. the cartidge has to be chambered first for the firearm to be ready).

I'm not flaming you. I'm serious. I carried this way myself at one point.

Edmund
 
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