Why I Don't Agree with Anyone Politically

Cheimison

Moderator
Why I Don't Agree with Anyone Politically

Basically my theory is that the market works best without government intervention. In this sense the Republicans (that is, people in the party) are quite a bit more respectful of private property than the Democrat/Liberals are, but in practice the Republicans are just as bad as Democrats in terms of freedom.

I am what I consider to be consistently for freedom, all freedom and I think both the Republicans and Democrat politicians are just as bad in making bad, stupid, harmful, state-expanding laws as the other. Any government employee is going to be served by expanding government power, and politicians don't get into their position by action, they get into it by rhetoric, demagogoury and lies.

My view on foreign policy is that of Pat Buchanan. I think the 'Neo-Conservatives' and pro-war/foreign meddling guys are completely out of their god damn minds. I hate the way the US conducts its wars, and I don't think it ought to be in the majority of them that it is in.

My Agreement with Republicans/Conservatives:
-Firearms-​
Now I'm further on this than some conservatives - I'm for the right to own any firearm. M249s, grenades, F16s. Some people say that the private sector and certain people can't be trusted with automatic rifles, or RPGs or tanks. They may be right. But, in my opinion, he government CAN NOT be trusted with these things and the best we can do is to have access to the same stuff.
-No Criminal Coddling-​
I believe that any invasion of property, assault or immediate threat of violece can be responded to with force, up to and including immediate lethal force. When shooting a thug, I do not shoot to make him stop, or to incapacitate. I shoot to kill. I hope he dies. As far as I'm concerned the moment he chose not to respect my rights, he lost all of his and became a garage for bullets. This is more extreme than many Conservatives would go, but I can't see any reason for letting punks off.

Where I Agree with the Left:
-Drugs-​
I absolutely oppose all drug laws, patents and regulation. They're nothing but cartelism by the Pharmaceutical companies andaste of money and police time. I am not personally a drug seller or user. However it is my firm belief that people can make, buy and sell ANYTHING WHATSOEVER as long as they are not violating the property of another human being in the process. People who think we should prevent drug sales because drug users are more likely to commit crimes ignore two things: #1 Drug users only commit crimes because the illegality of drugs pushes their price through the stratosphere, #2 The exact same argument could be made that guns are more capable of killing someone. However people who want them will still get them, and all the banning does is create a profitable underworld for scumbags and thugs while hurting innocent people.

-Homosexual Marriage-​
Now I don't particularly care for 'gay' rights. I think people who happen to have sex with the same sex have the same 'rights' as anyone else, that is to do whatever they want with what they own. I don't think the government, any government, has any business in determining who is married or not, though. I think if you want to marry your cat and leave your house to it, that is your business. I didn't say I thought it was smart or right, but I have no right to tell other people what to do.

Now here's a thing where I differ a lot with the Conservatives, but I don't think that the law should have anything to do with morality. Morality is all over the map and I don't think, no matter how strongly you believe in a principle, that you can ever prove you are the absolute correct moral arbiter in the eyes of God. I think that the function of law and government, the only function, is to protect the negative rights of people. What I mean by negative rights is the right to NOT have their property invaded. I consider all rights property rights. Freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom from attack - these are all rights because you own your body and in someone else's land you can lose these rights (thus I can kill an invader to my home, and I can tell my son to stop cursing or leave my home).

Frederic Bastiat's "The Law" is an excellent work on my view of law, it is available freely online.

If you look into the history of the Old Right (before that Bastard Lincoln) you can see that the actual Old Right were in agreement with me. Private property and individual liberty are paramount - there is no such thing as 'society', there are only people and a government that that is not serving the interest of any individual person has no right to command that person. Thomas Hobbes, a very pro-government writer, even admits this in Leviathan. The Founding Fathers were also proponents of this philosophy, as classic Liberalism was what this country was founded on. I believe that loss of individualism, personal responsibility and private property are what has led this country-downhill, and not all of it was commited by the left.

Now following from Classic Liberal, Old Right and basic Anglo-Saxon law it follows that police are very often criminals. I do not intend this as an insult of the undoubtedly numerous law enforcement officers on this board, but in his role as the disruptor of willing, non-violent merchant exchanges in: drugs, prostitution, gambling and weapon sales (among others) the police officer is the offending party and the people commiting these so-called 'crimes' would have every right to defend themselves against him - even violently. In this respect I think a police officer who accepts bribes to protect drug dealers is morally superior to the hard-nosed NARC.

To address a specific defense of drug law that drug dealers are often (real) criminals who have commited violence, I would respond in two ways: #1 the reason drug dealers are real thugs is because outlawry has prevented honest merchants from being able to deal in drugs. These people would drive the thugs out of business, which is why we don't have gang bangers peddling cereal and wine glasses. #2 The classic expression that it is better to let a thousand guilty men go free than to convict one innocent man is something I firmly believe, although practically speaking the ratio need not be nearly this bad (IE we should try to convict real criminals). The logic that some drug dealers are real criminals, though, directly inverts this proposition. We jail hundreds of thousands of drug offenders (they make up the largest portion of prisoners, as well as drug crimes being the greatest budget expenditure of police) in order that we may catch a few murderers and con-men.

-Democracy-​
I also have a strong distrust of Democracy/Republicanism. Both parties claim this to be essential and say their policies defend it, which should tell you it's a bad idea to start with. I get so sick of hearing Bush steal whats-his-faces campaign to 'make the world safe for democracy', and these socialistic union ads proclaiming how such and such is against democracy. Democracy has several things wrong with it.
#1: It doesn't make any god damn sense to begin with. Democracy encourages the majority to decide upon things which the majority are ignorant of. I cannot see how letting majorities decide what is right, true and proper (especially considering most things believed by most people have been entirely wrong and the exact converse of fact) would seem like a good idea to any thinking human being.
#2: Egalitarianism. People are not equal. And (by nature of definition) the more competent, moral people will be a minority and thus politics will become a sport of the inferior taking out their jealousy on their betters.
#3: Demagogoury: Political leaders in democracies and republics have shorter terms and thus tend to abuse their powers more, as well as rely on lies, nonsense and trickery to gain their positions. Very few politicians are actual men of character and ability, instead they are base rhetoricians. I think it's funny to see these smear-campaigns talking about how John Kerry was a coward or did this or that, when the greatest indictment against him is his choice of career.

-The Origin of My Political Beliefs-​
It is basically economics. Having had the luck to read some very large, logical and consistent economic treatise when I was young - and having a head for logic - I find that Capitalism - totally unregulated, free-market, balls-to-the-wall capitalism - trumps any force intervetionism and that any sort of government intervention outside of protection from coercion is absolutely, unalterably doomed to mishaps, inefficiency, corruption, and most likely will backfire to the exact opposite effect. I think the trust in government and most political beliefs people have are about as logical as your preference of colours and that's why most political debates are just a spiral of nonsensical gibberish where neither side has any point, and its just a meaningless opinion fight.

And that is why no one agrees with my politics. Let the flaming begin.
 
"And that is why no one agrees with my politics. Let the flaming begin."

No one? Flaming? I presume you are voting Libertarian this time around. Myself, I'll probably vote against Kerry (by voting for Bush), but in most of your thinking, you are hardly alone.
 
Voting is worthless. You need a majority to agree with you to win, but if a majority agree with you then you'll win without voting.

Democracy is one of the biggest lies in modern history.

I'm also an individualist. I do not believe in activism or Group Traps or politics or parties. I am opposed to government itself, in fact. I think politicians are criminals. I won't take part in choosing the next Don, thank you.
 
Cheimison - You don't believe in voting and you don't belive in activism or any "group traps." Do you believe that changing the government is impossible; by either groups or individuals?

I can't help but think that you are a spectator on the sidelines of whatever country you happened to be born in. Your words are critical of your government, but you are unwilling (unable, maybe?) to do anything about it.

Please don't get me wrong, I agree with you on many issues, but your self-applied label of "individualist" sounds more like "isolationist" to me. If you don't get involved and do something about the government, you deserve whatever government you get. :)

-Dave
 
Societal change only occurs if many individuals change, which is, after all, what society is. I do not, however, control many individuals. As I recall I only control one. It is more productive for me to look after my own interests and maximize my personal freedom than to expend energy unproductively on politicians or advocacy. Just like voting it will become free or not with or without me, and, in fact, this freedom would come from other people taking responsibility for themselves just as I have.
I deny any authority of the government or other people over myself. I deal with the government in the same manner I would an armed thug: I decide between hiding, cooperating and planting a bullet in his dome.
 
It sounds too me that you lean a more towards the libartertarian than Republican or Democrat. This is how I lean as well. Cali is one of the worst examples of how bad our government can treat us. For example, you can be drunk in your house, but not on your own property inside your house, and this is an arrestable offense. I firmly beleive that if you own your property, and obtained it through legal means, then you have the right to govern what goes on there, and the police have no buiseness inforcing public law on your property. Our government is operating on the assumption that we need governing as a society, and use fear to make us see it there way.
 
it follows that police are very often criminals.

I don't know about other people, but I believe that very few police officers are criminals. That is no different then saying that very often, gun owners are drug dealers.

Disagree with you partly on gay marraiges, I think. I am getting the impression that you simply want the gov't to not decide who can get married. My choice would be to return marriage to a religious function. Your religion allows gay marriage, fine. Your religion supports multiple spouses, fine. You're not religious? Simply live with the one you love, because in the government's eyes there is no difference between an unmarried couple and a religiously married one.

But yeah, you sound Lib. Not that it matters
 
I don't believe in voting.
And yet you wish to tell us why you don't agree with anyone "politically". Which begs the question why? (Don't bother to answer that question (see reason below).
it follows that police are very often criminals.
And yet you advocate murder on this forum (see quote below).
The answer is quite simple, they should kill parliement. Original context here.
You claim the police are often criminals all while advocating the murder of people you don't believe in voting for or against.

Wow!

I can find no reason to continue to consider anything you have to say.
 
There are a lot of logical flaws in Cheimison's arguments. The most glaring is "police are very often criminal".....

I've talked to people like this before... they feel that a lot of words is a good substitute for truth.
 
[Cheimison is an anarchist.]

It sure does appear that way. Also, Cheimison's thinking is also totally irrational.
No wonder he does not agree with anyone.
Jerry
 
Police who enforce laws that involve interfering with an individuals use of his own property, when that property is not being used in a way destructive or intrusive to someone else's property, are commiting a criminal act. To use the words of Bastiat, they are enforcing 'Illegal laws'. As this is what laws against drugs, prositition and traffic violations (that do not cause harm to anyone, like speeding) are, and these are the most commonly enforced laws - thus police are often criminals.
By the same, parliament are criminals and I believe you have a right to shoot criminals.
Actually my thinking is entirely rational and consistent with economics. It is the etatists who engage in sentiment, arbitrariness and fallacious reasoning when they insist that the state can do anything that people acting on a market cannot, and that somehow the government can possibly have any idea how to be productive and efficient (which is contrary to empirical evidence and the fact that economic calculation is impossible under socialism, which is all that any government program is - socializatio/state control of some means of production.
 
I should know better, but I simply can't let this drivel sit unanswered....

I believe you have a right to shoot criminals

Assuming for one second I grant that right (not likely....) then criminals by what standard? You have stated that you believe many of the current laws to be "illegal". If this is so, by what standard to you judge someone to be a criminal? Your own? Are you then judge, jury and executioner? What then if I judge you to be a criminal (by my own arbitrary standard)? Am I then imparted with the right to shoot you? This argument is infantile and quickly collapses into chaos.

Actually my thinking is entirely rational and consistent with economics.

Whose economic theory? Keynesian? Neoclassical? What? Every rational economic theory I have read relies upon a system of social order with a stable legislative and judicial system as a fundamental tenet. You propose to completely usurp these things in the name of economics.... Explain? Without some assurance of social order and enforceable contracts, economic theory collapses. Just look at Sub-Saharan Africa if you need evidence of this as truth in fact, not just theory.

Your arguments are naive and ill formed. Go back to your studies and read the entire book before you come here and start foaming at the mouth.
 
Considering the fact that you dont vote and take part in what makes this country what it is, then I see no need in you even making this post, other than just to piss people off. If you dont vote, you might as well not even state your political status, because if your not going to back it up in the voting booth, it wont make a difference anyways.
 
Cheimison,

I respectfully disagree with one of your statements. To paraphrase, you don't believe an individual can cause change. THIS HAS BEEN PROVEN FALSE through out history. It IS generally ONE PERSON who cries the call to arms that rallies those groups of like individuals, SUCH AS YOURSELF, that gets changes done. Regardless of whether YOU like the change that occurred because of that one person.

Paul Revere's ride. Hell, ALL our founding fathers. EACH ONE made an individual decision to stand up to the BRITISH. That's what got this country going.

Forward to India, Mahatma Ghandi professing 'non-violent' protests. Ran the Brits out of India. Actually, by that time, the British monarchy was falling apart across the globe. The old saying, "the sun never sets on the British empire" was slowly being eroded. Ghandi just gave them the final push.

FAST FORWARD to Martin L. King. Without his involvement in the Civil Rights movement, we might STILL have segregation. And no one flame me on this point, but does ANYONE here think that police with water hoses and dogs, like what happened in Montgomery, ALABAMA was a police officer's finest moment? Not saying criminal, but not right either.

Is anyone here old enough to remember how the early Super Bowl advertising were rife with cigarette and hard booze commercials. IT TOOK ONE GUY to get that ball rolling. The results you see today. NO ciggy commercials and NO hard booze commercials on TV. Not saying what replaced those ads is any better, it's just an illustratiion of what ONE PERSON CAN DO.

Finally, I myself tilt at windmills and fight city hall ALL THE TIME. I just finished with the City of Colorado Springs regarding a 'noise ordinance' issue for motorcycles. The first month, the city officials told me (nicely) to go blow. FOUR MONTHS LATER, Mayor Lionel Rivera annouced in the CS Gazette that he was enpanelling a 'blue ribbon panel' to look into the problem.

And so you don't think I am completely against your ideas, here is what I think needs to be done in this country. IT WOULD SOLVE most of the issues you discuss.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153968

Finally, here is one of the CURRENT fights I'm starting to take on. I can NOT STRESS ENOUGH that you can EITHER stand up and express your opinions to THOSE THAT DISAGREE WITH YOU (politely) or you can just allow OTHERS form the way this country is going. One of the reasons we currently have all the Poltical Correctness is because as conservatives, WE DID NOT STAND UP AND SAY, "Enough is enough!" That has FINALLY begun to change. Here is the thread about the 17 yo trap shooter whose High school won't let him use his senior picture of him in his trap shooting outfit, double shotgun open, over his shoulder.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152690

YOU MIGHT BE SURPRISED WHAT ONE PERSON CAN DO. Consider that one person as the one who kicks that first rock down a REALLY LONG slope. At the top, when that rock is first kicked, it doesn't stir up much. BUT, by the middle of the slope, things start to get real interesting. By the time the rolling mass gets to the bottom of the hill, YOU DON'T want to be standing there, because the mass of rolling rocks WILL BURY YOU. Just like I've buried Colorado Springs city government, WITH HELP from my motorcycle brothers ACROSS THIS COUNTRY.

So, if you don't wish to get involved, that's your RIGHT. But, don't complain about where we are NOW, if you are UNWILLING to fight for YOUR BELIEFS. Who knows, YOU MIGHT JUST BE THE ONE GUY who WILL MAKE THE DIFFERENCE. You won't know until you try. Hang tuff dude.
 
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