Why I believe the Canik TP9 Series should be the end of "first pistol" discussion threads...

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Brando1992

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Why I believe the Canik TP9 Series should be the end of "first pistol" discussion threads...

So I was just reading DUSTIN71986's post asking what his first pistol should be. And I was surprised by a few things:

First I realized not everyone is crazy like us gun guys and is willing to drop $500 just cause there's a good deal on the newest and greatest. I am so guilty of this! I had to have a p10c when they came out and now I'm wanting a gen 5 19... ugh its a sickness. But stepping back to when I bought my first handgun, $300 on a firearm was almost unthinkable.

Next was that no one had mentioned the canik tp9 flavor of 9mm's!

Most first time pistol buyers are looking for a budget option, likely a full size for home defense, likely anyone buying their first gun will eventually purchase a second gun to use for concealed carry if they get the itch and are passionate about shooting/self defense. Keeping everything in mind above I want to set some parameters for this scenario, as everyone's specific needs are different and everyone is coming from different places financially some people may have no issue purchasing a kimber 1911 as their first gun (over priced pieces of crap - am I too opinionated?) So the parameters are set based on what I believe most first time buyers will be looking for.

Must be compact or full size.
Must be in a commonly available caliber. (lets be real - 9mm is hands down the obvious choice here, its the most popular, affordable and available defensive round. Get out of here with that out dated .40! - more of my opinionatedness)
Must be a gun that is readily available.
Must be a gun that is purchased new.
Must be affordable.
Must be striker fired. ( I know this will get a bunch of backlash. But when teaching a new shooter how to be proficient in self defense, accuracy, maintenance of the weapon, ect... I feel that a striker fired firearm is going to serve the general public better than a DA/SA and better than a SAO with a safety to fight with and train on.)

Ok maybe those parameters may be really leaning towards only a few guns out these days... but nonetheless I feel this is what will serve the new gun owner the best and allow them to develop their skills as a shooter and start to determine what they like and don't like about pistols.

Based on these parameters my first instinct is to tell everyone the first gun they need is a glock 19.(yes I know I'm a biased fanboy) but then I get to thinking, why would i suggest a glock to someone who may never take advantage of the vast aftermarket support, upgraded triggers ect... like I do. So then guns like the walther ppq, hk vp9, czp10c, m&p9 and even the sig 320(don't drop that thun thun...) come into play. Only issues with these guns for the first time buyer is the price. Most will be hesitant to drop $500+ on their first pistol.

So a few budget guns come to mind: ruger 9e, S&W SD9ve, hi peezy, taurus (yuck) and then my preference the canik TP9SA or SF or SFX or whatever all their new models are nowadays.

Taurus has a reputation for guns that need to take advantage of their great warranty service. - not necessarily what you want to introduce a new gun owner with. Ruger has also had some spotty quality control. I used to love rugers sr pistol line, and never understood why so many people bashed them... until I got a hold of a bad one. YIKES:eek: since then I get it. I don't recommend them now but if you get a good one it will serve you well. The S&W SD9ve is actually a pretty good gun, it just has a poor trigger, sure apex kit can help but even after the apex its by no means a good trigger. Hi point.. get it if its all you can get. I wont say they are terrible, we all know they are terrible, but they work, for the most part.

Now lets talk about the Canik... DANG those guns are amazing for the price! You get an amazing trigger, very accurate gun and it feels great in the hand. It comes with a holster and 2 mags, it runs like a champ I wouldn't have any issue with trusting one as my EDC ( I usually carry a large pistols for EDC). The gun is extremely accurate and all you are giving up compared to other options on the market is the aftermarket support. But there are plenty of holster companies and sight options available now, what else would you need when it comes from the factory with as nice of trigger as it comes with??

I understand I'm extremely opinionated but I hope this will spark good discussion and hopefully point first time pistol owners in a good direction.

I have had many friends purchase these guns as their first due to me pointing them that direction, everyone has absolutely loved theirs and the time I've spent behind them have shown me that these pistols deserve a spot right up there with Glocks, M&P's and even the Walther's, Sig's and HK's.
 
I would not go as far as your last sentence, but they seem fine. However, there is nothing wrong with a DA/SA, DAO, or a (wait for it) revolver for first timers if they are willing to learn the manual of arms & proper safety, etc.


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JMag, I am actually a huge fan of DA/SA and love my CZ's but ive just noticed most of the time with first time buyers simple is better. a revolver is also a good option for a first time gun purchase but it doesn't seem to be peoples first choice these days which is why I posted this in the semi auto section
 
Police departments use a series of criteria. Price is often high on the list. Many officers are relatively new to shooting (and many maintain that status after doing whatever they need to qualify). There is a reason they end up with the firearms they do.

Personally I think we spend far too much time worrying about what trigger / grip / etc. novice shooters will give a preference too. You only think gun X has a bad trigger because you have tried gun Y. You only think the angle on the grip on gun X is bad because you have tried gun Y. Worry less about equipment and more about becoming competent with the equipment you have or, in the case of new shooters, will have.

There are a lot of choices out there from major manufacturers and frankly very few really bad ones.
 
I mostly agree with Lohman.

My disagreement is with the idea that thinking something is "bad" through comparison with something else. I had nothing to compare to when I shot a Glock the first time, but I found it to be very uncomfortable. It felt wrong in my hand, a very forced hold on it for me.

By spending a little bit more time finding something that fits comfortably, new shooters will enjoy the experience more. I know I would have walked away if my only option had been the Glock. I'd wager very few new shooters will force themselves to overcome things like that.
 
I had nothing to compare to when I shot a Glock the first time, but I found it to be very uncomfortable. It felt wrong in my hand, a very forced hold on it for me.
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The joy of not having an issues firearm is you can take such considerations into making your decision. My personally "OMG this gun feels wrong" was a Gen 2 or 3 G20. I bought it anyways and always hated it. Shot it reasonably well but hated it which is odd because in general I like Glocks and enjoy my G4 G29.
 
I understand what you are saying, but I don't think there is any one The Best Gun for any purpose.

You make a lot of assumptions, explicit and implicit, in your argument, and they aren't true for every first-time buyer. Budget varies, desired features vary, the amount of training they intend to get varies, the use of the pistol varies. Opinions change with learning. I have told the story on these boards before of a close friend who had an immediate need for a handgun. He came to my house sure that he wanted a pistol with a thumb safety, but by the time he learned the basics of gun safety he was convinced that he wouldn't need one. He is also an exception in that his need was so acute that he received his concealed carry permit very soon after his pistol purchase (actually took his class and completed his application before buying his pistol) and started carrying as soon as the permit arrived. Not all needs are the same, so I can't support the conclusion that any pistol "should be the end of 'first pistol' threads."
 
Lohman446 said:
The joy of not having an issues firearm is you can take such considerations into making your decision. My personally "OMG this gun feels wrong" was a Gen 2 or 3 G20. I bought it anyways and always hated it. Shot it reasonably well but hated it which is odd because in general I like Glocks and enjoy my G4 G29.
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I tried both the Gen4 17 and 42 that trip. I wasn't expecting to be perfect right away, but the difference between that trip and the trip two weeks later with a PPQ is a stark contrast. At least with the PPQ I could keep things on paper.
 
My main concern with Canik is the lack of a long-term track record for factory parts and service, particularly given the volatile political situation in Turkey.

My fear is that the pistols will become orphans like Stars, Astras, and Russian commercial Makarovs have.
 
I believe a gun should be comfortable in your hand. And there aren't too many reasons to not at least handle a gun before buying.

There are too many variables involved to say any one style or brand or model is best. For instance, my 1st pistol was not my 1st firearm. I wanted an exposed hammer and a manual safety. Just because the safety is there, doesn't mean you have to use it. I don't find da/sa confusing or hard to learn. I actually think a da/sa is better for a 1st time pistol since it is kind of all in one, allowing the user to figure out what their own personal preference is without needing multiple guns to figure it out.
 
My recommendation for a first gun is never a semi auto. Too many people think that removing the magazine makes it unloaded and that is a common problem, especially with new gun folks. When the cartridges of a revolver are removed there is no question it is unloaded. It is more common to have problems associated with feeding extraction and fail to fire with autos than with revolvers. New gun owners have enough problems learning to shoot without the complexities of a semi auto.

The above is just my opinion and my experience over the last 40 years assisting new gun owners at the range and in the store. You may well have had different experiences and a different opinion.
 
carguychris said:
My main concern with Canik is the lack of a long-term track record for factory parts and service, particularly given the volatile political situation in Turkey.

My fear is that the pistols will become orphans like Stars, Astras, and Russian commercial Makarovs have.
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That is certainly a concern as is reliability. Lots of reports of broken firing pins with the Canik I have read about. If someone buys one for a range gun then that is not such a big deal but the person who buys it as their only pistol or one to be used for SD/CCW that would be a concern.

IMO Walther PPQ or HK VP9 would be a lot better choice for that style SF pistol and with the rebates going on they are a terrific deal.

For a first pistol I always recommend the purchaser look at pistols from a larger US manufacturer that can provide good support and warranty service if needed.

Nothing wrong with Glock either. I CCW a Gen 2 Glock 19 myself when I want to CCW a double stack pistol.
 
Out of all the places modern pistols are made, Turkey is right down there with the U.A.E. and anywhere in South America on my "thanks, but no thanks" list.
 
WOW. Century Arms has issue a warning about possible drop fires in the Canik SF pistols and upgrade program.

Century Arms has announced a product safety warning and upgrade notice for its Canik TP9SA, TP9SF, TP9SFx, TP9SF Elite and TP9SF Elite-S pistols.

Customer will have to pay for shipping both ways.

http://www.personaldefenseworld.com/2017/09/century-arms-canik-safety-notice/#tp9sa

Century Arms Issues Safety Warning, Upgrade for 5 Canik Pistols
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According to the release, evaluations and tests have shown that “repeated abusive dropping of pistols” could result in damage to these pistols’ safety features and an unintentional discharge. Therefore, the company is offering a voluntary upgrade to the trigger safety spring and firing pin block spring for those Canik models. The upgrade doesn’t alter any feature or design of the pistols.

Century Arms says there aren’t any safety concerns with these guns when used under ordinary conditions. Rather, the goal here is to prevent drop discharge in heavy or severe duty conditions that are beyond industry standards.

Canik will provide all the parts and workmanship for the upgrade completely free of charge, but customers are responsible for all shipping costs. Century Arms says it’s hoping to finalize the upgrade process by Friday, Sept. 8. After that, head over to CanikUSA.com for complete instructions on how to receive the upgrade.
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Better than Glock? Uh no.

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Glock 19 or 23
 
So, is "WARNING: REPEATED IMPACTS TO YOUR PISTOL TO TEST ITS SAFETY FUNCTIONS WILL DAMAGE INTERNAL PARTS, AND VOID ITS WARRANTY." a response to all the nimrods throwing guns around on youtube, or is it a coverup for yet another drop-fire prone design?
 
Well they claim they are just replacing a couple springs - trigger safety spring and firing pin block spring . Springs wear out with normal use too. I personally would stay away.
 
Gats Italian said:
Out of all the places modern pistols are made, Turkey is right down there with the U.A.E. and anywhere in South America on my "thanks, but no thanks" list.
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FWIW I did not mean to suggest that Canik's quality control is somehow suspect.

Even top-notch products wear out, and every item mass-produced by man has quality control problems at times. My concern is that Canik will go belly-up or will be the subject of trade sanctions or an import ban like some Chinese and Russian companies.
 
Out of all the places modern pistols are made, Turkey is right down there with the U.A.E. and anywhere in South America on my "thanks, but no thanks" list.
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To be completely fair, Turkey actually makes some decent firearms. EAA Witness is now importing a Turkish CZ clone called the SAR B6P that retails for peanuts. I wouldn't say that it is as high quality as a CZ SP01, but it's also half the price and I wouldn't expect it to be. I have a friend that has a Tristar (or Canik) all metal CZ clone. It is actually a really well put together firearm for the price. He has fired several thousand rounds with no issue.

My main concern with Canik is the lack of a long-term track record for factory parts and service, particularly given the volatile political situation in Turkey.

My fear is that the pistols will become orphans like Stars, Astras, and Russian commercial Makarovs have.
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A fair consideration. If you're handy, making replacements is a possibility. It's not some magical process, most guys that could fit a 1911 thumb safety could shape some simple parts. The non-simple ones are a little tricky.
 
That Canik safety warning and repair sound mighty similar to the SIG voluntary recall or upgrade or whatever they're calling it. Just goes to show anything can have problems.
 
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