why do you have guns? par VI
- Thread starter crobrun
- Start date
*sigh* (boys! 
)
anyway...back to the topic.
Why do I own a gun? The standard answers from most women who own guns would apply to me as well. Protection from someone twice as large as I am and 10 times stronger.
My question is, why NOT own a gun?
Most women's answer is because guns are *dangerous*, they kill people in gun *accidents*, etc.
The anti's love to quote (extremely manipulated) statistics. So, here are some statistics for you. This could be much more "scientific" if I had six months or so to work on it, but bear with me here.
I don't have a source for this, but if someone wants to call me on it, I'll try to find it: a woman's chance of being attacked in her lifetime: one in four (25%)
The following "gun death" statistics are from this (anti-gun) page: http://www.vpc.org/studies/whofem.htm
In 1996, 130 women were killed by guns unintentionally, 56 more were killed by guns and it was not know whether it was intentional or not, so we'll say that these were accidents as well. So, 186 accidental gun deaths to women. The estimated female population in the US in 1996 was 135,724,000 ( http://www.census.gov/population/estimates/nation/intfile2-1.txt ). Let's say the average American woman lives to be 80 years old. Let's also assume (for the sake of time and argument) that 1996 represents an "average" year for gun-related deaths and female population.
So, over an 80-year period(lifetime), the number of women who will die as a result of gun accidents is (186*80)=14,880. So, out of 135+ million women, a woman's chance of accidentally dying/killing herself with a gun during her 80-year lifetime is:
(14,880/135,724,000)=0.0001096
In conclusion:
Why own a gun?
*Because I have a 25% chance of being attacked.
Why not own a gun?
*Because I have a 0.01096% chance of accidentally killing myself.
)anyway...back to the topic.
Why do I own a gun? The standard answers from most women who own guns would apply to me as well. Protection from someone twice as large as I am and 10 times stronger.
My question is, why NOT own a gun?
Most women's answer is because guns are *dangerous*, they kill people in gun *accidents*, etc.
The anti's love to quote (extremely manipulated) statistics. So, here are some statistics for you. This could be much more "scientific" if I had six months or so to work on it, but bear with me here.
I don't have a source for this, but if someone wants to call me on it, I'll try to find it: a woman's chance of being attacked in her lifetime: one in four (25%)
The following "gun death" statistics are from this (anti-gun) page: http://www.vpc.org/studies/whofem.htm
In 1996, 130 women were killed by guns unintentionally, 56 more were killed by guns and it was not know whether it was intentional or not, so we'll say that these were accidents as well. So, 186 accidental gun deaths to women. The estimated female population in the US in 1996 was 135,724,000 ( http://www.census.gov/population/estimates/nation/intfile2-1.txt ). Let's say the average American woman lives to be 80 years old. Let's also assume (for the sake of time and argument) that 1996 represents an "average" year for gun-related deaths and female population.
So, over an 80-year period(lifetime), the number of women who will die as a result of gun accidents is (186*80)=14,880. So, out of 135+ million women, a woman's chance of accidentally dying/killing herself with a gun during her 80-year lifetime is:
(14,880/135,724,000)=0.0001096
In conclusion:
Why own a gun?
*Because I have a 25% chance of being attacked.
Why not own a gun?
*Because I have a 0.01096% chance of accidentally killing myself.
Gopher .45
New member
Sounds like CindyH is a scientist...or just someone who knows what the numbers really are. I admire a person who takes information and evaluates it appropriately and then makes an informed decision. "Proof of thought" is a good thing.
Jeff Thomas
New member
Cindy, Cindy, Cindy .... sigh. What do you think you're doing bringing logic to this thread? What were you thinking?
We're talking emotion here, putting our feelings 'out there', and feeling the pain of the human race.
C'mon now ... try to get with the program.
Regards from AZ
We're talking emotion here, putting our feelings 'out there', and feeling the pain of the human race.
C'mon now ... try to get with the program.
Regards from AZ
Jedi Oomodo
New member
I realize I'm jumping in rather late on this topic, but it has gone so far and to the point that can no longer contain myself. 
First, I will answer folkbabe's questions before responding to some other statements I've read.
1) Why do you feel you want/need to own guns?
A.I'll begin by stating that RKBA is not a needs based right. I can, will, and do, own firearms merely because I blankety-blank WANT to.
B.I also am of the opinion that I need a gun because such is the only effective defense against someone else with a gun. Also, I am 5' 7" and 180 lbs- there are many guys out there that are bigger than me, and could beat me in a hand-to-hand struggle, were I dumb enough to try it with them (I am a man, BTW). A gun is, in many cases, the safest fastest and most effective way for a defender to end an assault.
C.It is my affirmation to everyone and myself that I am free and self-reliant, not dependent on the Nanny state to provide me with love, comfort, and Doritos.
D.In addition to all that- shooting is fun, wholesome, and normal! I challenge myself each time I go to the range, to do better than I did the last time.
2) If your primary reason for gun ownership is self-protection, what else would make you feel more secure?
A.Living in a society free of busybodies such as yourself who are far too preoccupied with forcibly improving my quality of life, even though I didn't ask you to.
B.Lack of general desire in man to do what is wrong and/or selfish.
C.Ability to use the Force.
D.A castle, with 40' thick walls, a big fire breathin' dragon in the parlor, and a moat full of piranhas, 'gators, n' lawyers.
3) What do you think are the causes of violence in your community?
A.Unwillingness by certain elements of society to work to provide for themselves, but instead wish to take (by force) what I have labored long and hard to earn. Note that this category includes government.
B.Lack of proper regard for human life.
C.Desire of certain elements to coerce compliance with their views on The Way It Oughtta Be.
That said, I might ask you why do you feel you need to not own a gun, but you've already answered that question to my satisfaction. It is my understanding that you have only just recently become old enough to vote. Your statements regarding your beliefs belie(sp?) the idealism of youth, and a lack of practical first-hand experience in Real Life. You cannot reason/talk to the vicious brute who has pinned you to the ground, and is strangling you with your own underwear. When Hitler came to power, the major world powers tried appeasement- Hitler wanted Czechoslovakia, so he got it, and it was downhill from there.
I agree that justice must be tempered with mercy, but unconditional compassion is dangerous. It would allow soulless murderers to go free from prison, and cruel despots like Mao to take whatever he wants by force because everyone else is “too compassionate” to fight back.
I take umbrage at your suggestion <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> “You think the world will be a safer place through the teaching and practice of violence.”[/quote] Nothing could be further from the truth! I do not advocate the practice of violence- I advocate armed resistance to criminal attack. Man is an animal, and animals in nature defend themselves all the time against predators, using their natural weapons. Man is a tool-using animal, that has developed weapon-tools that are more effective than his “natural” ones. There is nothing wrong with that.
You have also stated that you would not kill in self-defense, because you believe that every person is inhabited by a “divine light” and you refuse to snuff out that light- Who told you that this is so? Is it a conclusion you came to all by your lonesome, or was it taught to you by someone else? If it was taught to you, how do you know that they were right? In any case, it makes little difference. I very much doubt that you or your buddies were just sitting around, theorizing about supernatural matters, and somehow magically hit upon the correct one. All your wishful thinking and the dandelion fluff between your ears isn’t going to enable you to alter the universe to fit your conclusions. I am not trying to attack your beliefs, but rather, for your own sake, to get you to think reeeeeeeal long and reeeeeeeal hard before forfeiting your life, health, and wealth based on what could very well turn out to be a fairy tale. In answer to the question I know you will ask- yes, I am a Christian, and my reasons for believing in God and the authority of the Bible go beyond merely “I just do” or “that’s how I was taught”. I have reasons for believing as I do, and they are rational ones. If you are interested in hearing about it, I welcome your inquiry- by email.
I will leave you with this question- which man truly loves peace: the one who welcomes each and every invader into his home, with arms wide open, no matter how many times he and his family are beaten raped and plundered; OR, the one who stands ready to discourage and thwart the marauders, who builds his weapons, becomes proficient in their use, and hopes he need never use them?
------------------
Only in America, we're slaves to be free/Only in America, we kill the unborn, to make ends meet/Only in America, sexuality is democracy/Only in America, we stamp our god "In God we trust"
What is right or wrong?
I don't know who to believe in
My soul sings a different song, in America
-Creed, "In America"
The warrior kings lived by the sword/From hill to loch and dark fjord/Battling 'til his life he shed/leaving the throne/To the sons of Somerled...
Steve McDonald, "Sons of Somerled"
If it isna Scottish, it's CRAP! RKBA!
[This message has been edited more than a couple of times by Jedi Oomodo (edited May 26, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Jedi Oomodo (edited May 26, 2000).]
First, I will answer folkbabe's questions before responding to some other statements I've read.
1) Why do you feel you want/need to own guns?
A.I'll begin by stating that RKBA is not a needs based right. I can, will, and do, own firearms merely because I blankety-blank WANT to.
B.I also am of the opinion that I need a gun because such is the only effective defense against someone else with a gun. Also, I am 5' 7" and 180 lbs- there are many guys out there that are bigger than me, and could beat me in a hand-to-hand struggle, were I dumb enough to try it with them (I am a man, BTW). A gun is, in many cases, the safest fastest and most effective way for a defender to end an assault.
C.It is my affirmation to everyone and myself that I am free and self-reliant, not dependent on the Nanny state to provide me with love, comfort, and Doritos.
D.In addition to all that- shooting is fun, wholesome, and normal! I challenge myself each time I go to the range, to do better than I did the last time.
2) If your primary reason for gun ownership is self-protection, what else would make you feel more secure?
A.Living in a society free of busybodies such as yourself who are far too preoccupied with forcibly improving my quality of life, even though I didn't ask you to.
B.Lack of general desire in man to do what is wrong and/or selfish.
C.Ability to use the Force.
D.A castle, with 40' thick walls, a big fire breathin' dragon in the parlor, and a moat full of piranhas, 'gators, n' lawyers.
3) What do you think are the causes of violence in your community?
A.Unwillingness by certain elements of society to work to provide for themselves, but instead wish to take (by force) what I have labored long and hard to earn. Note that this category includes government.
B.Lack of proper regard for human life.
C.Desire of certain elements to coerce compliance with their views on The Way It Oughtta Be.
That said, I might ask you why do you feel you need to not own a gun, but you've already answered that question to my satisfaction. It is my understanding that you have only just recently become old enough to vote. Your statements regarding your beliefs belie(sp?) the idealism of youth, and a lack of practical first-hand experience in Real Life. You cannot reason/talk to the vicious brute who has pinned you to the ground, and is strangling you with your own underwear. When Hitler came to power, the major world powers tried appeasement- Hitler wanted Czechoslovakia, so he got it, and it was downhill from there.
I agree that justice must be tempered with mercy, but unconditional compassion is dangerous. It would allow soulless murderers to go free from prison, and cruel despots like Mao to take whatever he wants by force because everyone else is “too compassionate” to fight back.
I take umbrage at your suggestion <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> “You think the world will be a safer place through the teaching and practice of violence.”[/quote] Nothing could be further from the truth! I do not advocate the practice of violence- I advocate armed resistance to criminal attack. Man is an animal, and animals in nature defend themselves all the time against predators, using their natural weapons. Man is a tool-using animal, that has developed weapon-tools that are more effective than his “natural” ones. There is nothing wrong with that.
You have also stated that you would not kill in self-defense, because you believe that every person is inhabited by a “divine light” and you refuse to snuff out that light- Who told you that this is so? Is it a conclusion you came to all by your lonesome, or was it taught to you by someone else? If it was taught to you, how do you know that they were right? In any case, it makes little difference. I very much doubt that you or your buddies were just sitting around, theorizing about supernatural matters, and somehow magically hit upon the correct one. All your wishful thinking and the dandelion fluff between your ears isn’t going to enable you to alter the universe to fit your conclusions. I am not trying to attack your beliefs, but rather, for your own sake, to get you to think reeeeeeeal long and reeeeeeeal hard before forfeiting your life, health, and wealth based on what could very well turn out to be a fairy tale. In answer to the question I know you will ask- yes, I am a Christian, and my reasons for believing in God and the authority of the Bible go beyond merely “I just do” or “that’s how I was taught”. I have reasons for believing as I do, and they are rational ones. If you are interested in hearing about it, I welcome your inquiry- by email.
I will leave you with this question- which man truly loves peace: the one who welcomes each and every invader into his home, with arms wide open, no matter how many times he and his family are beaten raped and plundered; OR, the one who stands ready to discourage and thwart the marauders, who builds his weapons, becomes proficient in their use, and hopes he need never use them?
------------------
Only in America, we're slaves to be free/Only in America, we kill the unborn, to make ends meet/Only in America, sexuality is democracy/Only in America, we stamp our god "In God we trust"
What is right or wrong?
I don't know who to believe in
My soul sings a different song, in America
-Creed, "In America"
The warrior kings lived by the sword/From hill to loch and dark fjord/Battling 'til his life he shed/leaving the throne/To the sons of Somerled...
Steve McDonald, "Sons of Somerled"
If it isna Scottish, it's CRAP! RKBA!
[This message has been edited more than a couple of times by Jedi Oomodo
(edited May 26, 2000).][This message has been edited by Jedi Oomodo (edited May 26, 2000).]
Quote for "pacifists"....
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest. If we want the Arms Act to be repealed, if we want to learn the use of arms, here is a golden opportunity. If the middle classes render voluntary help to Government in the hour of its trial, distrust will disappear, and the ban on possessing arms will be withdrawn." Mohandas K. Gandhi, Autobiography: The Story of My Experiments with Truth, Chapter XXVII, Recruiting Campaign, Page 403, Dover paperback edition, 1983. This book was originally published by Public Affairs Press in 1948.
[/quote]
Yes, this is a quote of the ever-peace-loving Ghandi.
another point:
If you read Raped's account of her attack and think about it, you will see that there is no opportunity to "talk your way out of it." The attacker grabbed her when she was completely unaware of his presence and beat her senseless before he raped her. Kinda hard to debate at a time like that.
(BTW, thanks Gopher .45....oh, yeah, Jeff, uh...I guess I need to get more in touch w/my feelings. I *feel* that I would like to go shooting this weekend.)
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest. If we want the Arms Act to be repealed, if we want to learn the use of arms, here is a golden opportunity. If the middle classes render voluntary help to Government in the hour of its trial, distrust will disappear, and the ban on possessing arms will be withdrawn." Mohandas K. Gandhi, Autobiography: The Story of My Experiments with Truth, Chapter XXVII, Recruiting Campaign, Page 403, Dover paperback edition, 1983. This book was originally published by Public Affairs Press in 1948.
[/quote]
Yes, this is a quote of the ever-peace-loving Ghandi.
another point:
If you read Raped's account of her attack and think about it, you will see that there is no opportunity to "talk your way out of it." The attacker grabbed her when she was completely unaware of his presence and beat her senseless before he raped her. Kinda hard to debate at a time like that.
(BTW, thanks Gopher .45....oh, yeah, Jeff, uh...I guess I need to get more in touch w/my feelings. I *feel* that I would like to go shooting this weekend.
)