Why do we shoot some handguns so well, and others so poorly?

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Poodleshooter

New member
So I was shooting a friend's buckmark last evening. Just some simple 50' shooting on an indoor range with cheap bulk ammo. I realized that I can pretty easily keep 20 rounds inside of 2" without much trouble. I don't even have to focus on fundamentals like I do when shooting a snub .38, a DA semi auto CCW piece, or even long barreled hunting revolvers. With a good .22 semi-auto pistol, I just put the front site on the target, squeeze the trigger, and the shots just cluster together easily,time after time,even when I'm sure that my sight picture was a bit off. With just about any centerfire pistol, even when I'm certain I've got a great sight picture, my groups just open right up. This happens with light wadcutter loads,heavy loads, long barreled revolvers, snubs, or CCW sized striker fired semi-autos.
This is curious to me. Are these small gripped .22s, with light,creepless triggers and long sight radiuses just a sort of crutch that hides or mitigates bad technique?
 
IMO, just like shooting shotguns at clays or birds - it comes down to fit - some guns fit better than others and are therefore easier for some to shoot better
 
You gota remember the Buckmark is a target pistol with low recoil, the thing is built for accuracy. Coupled with the low recoil you are able to get your sites back on the target not only in less time but your sites drift much less off the target then say you were shooting a .45 or .357. If I could shoot my model 60 in .357 half as good as my MKIII I would be a happy man.
 
It's a combination of things...

Mechanics (the quality of the firearm)
Ergonomics (how well the human interface works)
Ammunition (consistency of the loads)
Shooter (skill level and application of fundamentals)

Change any one and impact the results. Short change any beyond a certain degree and negatively impact the results.

Find *your* magic combination and make magic.

Do it all consistently over a period of years and be renamed Jerry Miculek.
 
It imo has to do mostly with fit, how the gun feels to you in your hands, I have out shot someone that I know is a better shot than me when he was trying one of my guns that I am very comfortable with, he wasn't a big fan. Same with I know I am a better shot than my one buddy but if we both were to shoot his Sigma he would probably out shoot me because I can't stand the feel of that gun, but he loves it.
 
Start with the trigger. A Buckmark has a pretty good single action pull. The trigger weight on a double action revolver or semi-auto will be three to four times heavier.
 
I don't think it's really fair to expect yourself to shoot as well with the other guns listed as with a target .22. Not to mention the target .22 you picked is in the top 2 (the other being Ruger Mk 1 or II) favorites of the experienced shooters on this site.
If your question is about a gun "fitting" a shooter I think the guns need to be more similar, like 2 compact carry guns, 2 full size carry guns, or 2 hunting guns.
I would be amazed if you find anyone who wouldn't have the same results given the guns mentioned.
 
Simple answer - stop watching where your shots are going when you shoot a centerfire.
Just tell yourself your shots are all going where you want them to.

Since you're already doing it w/the .22, it should be a simple adjustment to your "head".
Your "problem" is mental - not metal.

The key here is this statement that you made:
"I don't even have to focus on fundamentals like I do when shooting a snub .38, a DA semi auto CCW piece, or even long barreled hunting revolvers."

For God's sake, why are you concerned about "the fundamentals"? That's something you have to tell yourself you've mastered already and it's time to move on!
The simple fact that you can "let go & just let it happen" w/a .22 tells the whole story.
 
Imo, oneounceload is spot on.

Fit is huge and different with everyone.

Some pistols just fit/point more naturally than others. On a borrowed(or unfamiliar) gun, a more experienced shooter will adjust their grip to tighten groups up as best they can.

The first thing I do when firing a newly purchased pistol is see how it fits or how comfortable it is while shooting. Example, when shooting a DA pistol in SA mode there's a certain place I like my trigger finger to rest on the trigger. When shooting the same pistol DA, I like my trigger finger resting 'deeper' onto the trigger. There's only two ways to accomplish that. Either change grip or grip panels.
Bottom line is I have to make pistol feel as comfortable,natural in my hand as well as point naturally.

After fit is accomplished and I get the feel of the trigger, the rest is mental.
 
Lots of good points raised so far...

... from good fit, to good triggers, to minimal recoil.

I might take exception to the Top 2 comment about the Buckmark and Ruger series, though, when it comes to target .22 pistols.

Revolver guys very often like the K-22 S&W in its many iterations (I love my Model 18); semiauto guys very often like (but can't find) S&W Model 41s.

I like the Buckmark and the Ruger, but I'd take a 41 over either.
 
Its primarily "fit" and technique ...but there is a part of this that is affected by the quality of the trigger as well. Its hard to overstate how well you can shoot with a trigger that has very little slack, no creep and breaks like glass. Even if your technique ( like your grip isn't perfect ) - that trigger - and maybe the sights will make up for a lot. Recoil is a factor too ...

But you can compare the trigger in that Buckmark --- to any number of other guns .... a single action trigger in a double action revolver like a S&W, a good trigger in a well tuned 1911, a modified trigger in a number of the DA/SA guns ...and I think you'll find, its first and foremost "fit" / and then the Trigger - and then your technique ( grip, smooth action of trigger finger, follow-thru, etc ...

At least for me, my "mental" game ...is a factor as well. If I tell myself, I hate this gun, the trigger sucks ... then my groups are pretty bad. If I really like the gun - like the trigger - and know I can shoot it well ---and I push myself to perform ---then I can shoot up to my ability. If I'm just sending lead downrange with no goals ...no focus ...then my groups will show the result. Maybe with this Buckmark - you just told yourself - hey, I like it ...and you were really focused on doing your best ...

As I enter my 60's ....I'm constantly reminded --- my eyes are not very good, there is a little arthritis, some orthopedic issues ...and if I want to shoot up to my best potential, I really have to practice effectively and I have to want to shoot well. Picking the right equipment makes a difference - partly so those negative thoughts don't creep in there ---but I have to want it !

I talked to a buddy once - and he played a game with himself. Slow fire, with a revolver in .45acp - and at 10 yards - he had to put 100 shots into a
3" circle. For any shot outside of the 3" circle - he had to go home and put $10 into a jar ...and he hated putting that $10 in the jar .... He hated it even more, because it was $10 that his wife got to spend on her hobbies ...so it came out of his "shooting" budget. My recollection of the story might have the details off -- maybe it was $ 5, but the point is, he had to perform - or there was a penalty. Its easy to "yank" 1 or 2 rounds out of a 3" circle, even at 10 yds, out of 100 shots. It takes discipline and focus ....good equipment ...and good fundamentals.

Another trick I heard --- shoot the best 6 shot group you can at 10 yds. The goal is to shoot a 1" group ( so all shots are covered by a quarter ). Shoot one 6 shot group when you start your practice. Shoot another at the end of your practice .......if you can't do it ...go home and put the quarter in the Jar. ( the jar in my house, makes a lot of money ...) ....but I'm not letting it win !
 
For God's sake, why are you concerned about "the fundamentals"? That's something you have to tell yourself you've mastered already and it's time to move on!
The simple fact that you can "let go & just let it happen" w/a .22 tells the whole story.
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The thing is, when I "let go" with a DA centerfire carry piece (my old G30 for example) I can't even hit a 5" diameter bull at the same distance as I shoot the Buckmark into 1.5-2" easily. The sights aren't that different, nor is the sight radius even that different. The recoil on the G30 was quite manageable,so I don't think I was flinching. I sure didn't flinch when dry firing or in flinch testing. Yet I would constantly get terrible results except when I spent an extraordinary amount of time focusing on trigger pull, sight alignment,etc. Even then,my best groups were much larger than with the .22.
What this is telling me is that I want a Buckmark in single stack 9mm,so I can throw my poorly fit,terrible triggered,short sight radiused carry guns away. :D
 
Ok, ......( I'm still laughing ) ....

but sure, look at a 1911 single stack in 9mm ....a full sized gun, 5" barrel --- and you'll find a lot of offerings from Springfield, Kimber, Wilson Combat, etc ....( and while they are not Buckmarks ...) they will have very good, not hinged, triggers.
 
And, put Browning's logo on the 9mm 1911's grips and convince yourself it's a Buckmark with a center-fire conversion kit. :rolleyes:
 
With just about any centerfire pistol, even when I'm certain I've got a great sight picture, my groups just open right up. This happens with light wadcutter loads,heavy loads, long barreled revolvers, snubs, or CCW sized striker fired semi-autos.
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A .22 causes no recoil anticipation or flinch. Not so with larger handgun calibers where you expect a bang and tense up for it before the gun fires.

TIP: Keep the dang front sight on the target until the shot breaks! That's called follow thru. No follow thru, no hit.

TIP 2: Where the sights are when you think you fired means nothing. That's only where the sights were when your brain said shoot.

TIP 3: If your sights are properly aligned when the shot breaks you'll hit as easily as with the .22.

Gabe Suarez pointed out that most people don't understand the simple principle behind concentrating on the front sight and why we do it. You can only concentrate on one thing at a time. Is it going to be on anticipating recoil or the front sight? Cooper referred to the surprise break, which will naturally occur if your on the front sight. John Shaw teaches TWO sight pictures. One before the shot and one immediately after the gun recovers from recoil. All are for accomplishing the same thing--sights properly aligned when the gun fires.:cool:
 
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I shoot at an indoor range 2 or 3 times a week .... and come to find out ....I'm blinking when I pull the trigger ( a lot ) ....and its a reflex from the noise on an indoor range --- and its a flinch...

Its especially tough when someone is shooting a large caliber gun in the booth next to you..

I've started wearing double ear plugs / molded ear plugs / then ear muffs on top of the plugs ....and its helping a lot. I still have to force my eyes open - big time open ---- are really stare at the front site ... Its not easy to stop ...
 
I shoot at an indoor range 2 or 3 times a week .... and come to find out ....I'm blinking when I pull the trigger ( a lot ) ....and its a reflex from the noise on an indoor range --- and its a flinch...
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It's more than that. Have a buddy put a dummy round in your mag so you don't know when it's coming--or do it to him when he doesn't know:D.

Then suffer the embarrassment of a gun that goes CLICK as your hand jerks forward to meet the recoil--just like it does for every real shot.

MOST of us do that to one degree or another. How many of you can drop the hammer on an unexpected dummy round and not push forward?

It's interesting that we can still shoot pretty well that way, since our "push" is timed with the shot. I'ts not proper, but we do it. The best shooters have overcome that---mostly.:cool:
 
I wish I knew....This weekend I went over to a friends farm and shot my M&P 9c and Taurus PT145. I was able to out shoot my M&P with a gun I paid 250 bucks for....it's upsetting. It's not the 9c's fault I can rest it and it'll shoot great groups, I just can't shoot it without a lot more practice. The PT seems to just point naturally.
 
The PT seems to just point naturally.
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Could be, but maybe you adjusted to it. I think you can adjust to any gun.

Glocks don't point like Sig Sauers or 1911's, but it doesn't take long to adapt. Don't get discouraged by one time on the range.
 
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