Why do they sell what they don't believe in?

C

CrociJA

New member
This is a post directly related to the Tamara post.
Why is it than when you go to some gunshops, you make a statement like:
YOU: "How much is the .32 Kel-Tek?"
GUNSHOP OWNER: "You're kiddin' right? You want a REAL gun, you don't want anything less than a 9mm Kahr, or Glock. Now if you are really serious you'll get a (insert any caliber greater than .357) or a 12 guage with a 623 for home defense. Matter of fact I have one back here..."

Now is this a result of a gunshop owner who has read one too many Mac Bolan novels or is this simply a case of "bait and switch?"

Curious to know how other TFL'ers across the country feel,

JFYI: My gunshop in Newberry has a great staff, owner, they have always given me helpful advice that was actually worth a damn. Not to mention great prices! Picketts!

Jon
 
Howdy Neighbor...

Pickett's is pretty good. When Marge Beckwith died about half the staff showed up for the funeral. I thought that was a nice gesture considering Harry is probably their biggest competitor. I've bought both my 1911s from them, and had some minor work done in the shop while I waited.

They are really good about keeping up to date on the latest models, and usually have good turn outs when the have the factory reps come out.

Have you been in the Deer Stand? Not much of a selection, but it's close and fairly friendly. Ditto for Chris at the Pawn shop at the Interstate.

Where do you do your shooting?
 
I know how it must seem but there are true believers in the mini calibers. I know that if you asked most anybody here what caliber you shouldget for home defense you're gonna hear pretty much the same thing. It would prolly be mostly a .45 or 9mm debate with some of the older salts and wheelgunner guru's chiming in with the .38/357/44special vote. I would be suspicious of somebody who told me that the choice of defensive caliber was a .32 or weaker! I personally don't even like the .380 but THEY SELL!!!! it's more or less a matter of giving the people what they want.

Kinda like a Cadillac Escalade, Nobody really expects to go off road with that thing and it really doesn't offer anything the Tahoe or Suburban don't have but it's $50+K. why? Because they sell!
 
I travel all over the state and surrounding area...mainly the mountian west for work! I get the oppurtunity to frequent
alot of gun stores...all over the place. Most owners/sales people
I have dealt with are very easy going. They are very helpful and willing to answer any questions I have ...whether I am just brousing or actually looking for something specific. That is most of them...

AND THEN..I also frequent local pawn shops...once in a while, find
a nice deal to jump on. Once in a while, usually at these places, I find they have the most inept and opinionated employees. They not only slam the guns they are selling..."oh that *&%* 9mm is a piece of sh*t...you need the *476* over in that case...all of the other guns suck and are crap...you need a .40...or you will die!"
His opinion, conveyed in such eloquence and insight, had to be
actual fact and taken as gospel!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ba, ha ha ha ha

Once...oh god I forgot about this, I had a kid in SLC tell me my
SIG and CZ's were crap and If I was smart I would buy this new
gun that just came out..."Standard Arms" I laughed at him and
never went back. Not that I have anything against the gun he
was pushing either...I know nothing about Standard Arms..but
he sure didnt make me want to know any thing about them....that
is the point.............Just IMO....

Shoot well
 
Speaking as a consumer I tend to buy a firearm only after ALOT of research. Though I have found that no matter how much good press or how many good experiences others have had with a gun manufacturer there is usually someone who generally says: "(Insert Random Firearm here) Sucks! I wouldn't trust MY life to it! What you need is (Insert Flavor of the Month here)".
One of reasons why I stopped getting or even looking over the gun rags years ago. Always a "new and improved" firearm that "gosh" you just have to have. No firearm collection is just complete without!:rolleyes:
Of course on one end you have people trying to move stock on the other hand you have opinions thrown at you every whichway.
What gets me is that when you are ready to buy something and someone "deflects" your sale, they get this weird look when you walk away from the counter. I guess one of the reasons why I stick to one gunstore.
Swampgator:
The Deerstand wasn't that impressive to me. More of a place to get gear for hunting. Since I'm not an avid hunter.
Sapps prices are waaayy out of line. Kind of surprises me when they give me a quote.
Beckwith's prices are also pretty high. Especially when compared to Carl's over at Pickett's.
Pickett's has given me the best prices so far. I generally end up buying one firearm a year from him.
As for shooting I generally shoot at the Hernando Sportsmans Club. Outdoor range for $7.00 all day long, can't beat that with a stick!

Jon
 
A better question: why would anyone listen to a gunshop commando?

That happened to me once that I actually got mad (bad day). I asked for Les Baer mags. He sneered and told me that he had wonderful McCormick mags for $1.78 a dozen. I asked him how many formal hours of instruction he had and how often he shot McCormick mags. He looked at the floor and left me alone.

Now, I just smile and shake my head and say something like "yep, you're right." Some people think they know what they are doing if they are selling something. Go figure.
 
There is a real difference between being highly opinionated and bait and switch. Opinions are legl, but bait and swith is an illegal trade practice in the US.

So why sell guns you don't personally think are good?
Economics. If I sold guns and only sold guns I personally thought were the be all to end all, then my selection would be limited. While I know that my choices are absolutely perfect, the unfortunate aspect would be that a lot of people would not agree with me nor be able to afford my choices. While many gunshop employees (and owners) actually suck at salesmanship, the carry guns that sell. In a given week, how many Wilson Combat CQBs or Les Baers get sold at a given shop versus P-32s?

Something else that must be understood is that the customer may not have the same needs or wants as the person selling the gun and the shops selling guns know this. I personally am not convinced that a P-32 is a good idea in a defense gun, but you can bet I would sell them all day long to those people who are convinced that the P-32 is the way to go for them.

Let's say your 10 year old boy is going duck hunting for the first time this year. Do you buy him the $250,000 super Italian special made by hand by world-known Guido, the only one made in two years, with the three accessory barrels, engraved by a blind man with 80 years engraving experience, patterned to shoot perfect patterns at set ranges given the barrel and Guido's personally handloaded shot? Of course not! Not unless you are one of the three billionaire morons in the world that have the billions and no common sense. You buy your kid the $100-300 Remington or Mossberg, maybe used. Why not the perfect patterned gun? It really would be the ultimate duck gun and doesn't your kid deserve nothing but the best? You rationalize that your kid deserves the best, but that such a gun would cost more than your home, that he hasn't had any real duck hunting experience and such precision would be lost on him. Besides, you don't know if he is going to like it and frankly, you are a little concerned that he might drop the gun in the water. Heck, you will probably buy him the on-sale shot to shoot in his Remington and not the high dollar 2 bucks a round stuff, right?
 
"Do you buy him the $250,000 super Italian special made by hand by world-known Guido, the only one made in two years, with the three accessory barrels, engraved by a blind man with 80 years engraving experience, patterned to shoot perfect patterns at set ranges given the barrel and Guido's personally handloaded shot?"

If my kid's name was Prince William.. hell yes :D

But back to the topic at hand. there are a lot of gunshops and a lot of dealers.. there is usually less flim flam at a gun show to make a sale (there are way more customers) at your average dealer's table. There are some "small dealers" who really think and FEG hi-power is worth $450.. and some big shops that insist that a Lorcin is a finely crafted firearm.

I try to avoid these.

The only time I got annoyed at a dealer was while shopping for a black powder rifle. I really wanted to look at a 58 cal enfeild musketoon, and the guy really really really wanted to sell me a high end hawken. The musketoon was lighter, had a sling, had"neat factor".. the hawken just.. didn't. he insisted the sights on the musketoon were "too small and it was "innacurate".. hell did the guy THINK I was gonna shoot it past 100 yards? i didn't enmd up buying from that guy.. but I still wish I had bought a musketoon.. instead of the used hawken i picked up.. It was an awfully neat weapon. Damn hawken don't even have a bayonet lug!

Lol I did have a good laugh at a guy trying to sell my mom an AR-10 while we were out shopping for a "new varmint rifle" for my dad. Wow was that thing heavy.

Some guys will try anything to make a sale.. some salespeople take their time and do it right.
 
Gonzo_308, we meet again...

I know how it must seem but there are true believers in the mini calibers. I know that if you asked most anybody here what caliber you shouldget for home defense you're gonna hear pretty much the same thing. It would prolly be mostly a .45 or 9mm debate with some of the older salts and wheelgunner guru's chiming in with the .38/357/44special vote. I would be suspicious of somebody who told me that the choice of defensive caliber was a .32 or weaker!
Click to expand...

I don't know of anyone who'd pick or recommend .22/.25/.32 as a primary defensive caliber either, except perhaps in cases of the extremely arthritic or weak of hand.

However, that's not what these little guns are for.

They are for being able to carry a gun when you otherwise couldn't. Some folks' dress codes at work preclude untucked shirts. Some folks can't wear ankle rigs. Some folks can't wear fanny packs. Some folks make decisions to carry in places that maybe they aren't, you know, technically allowed to.

Going unarmed is the choice of some, but I'll take a .22/.25/.32 over a fistfull of nothing any day of the week.

They make good backup, too, massing little more than a spare magazine for my primary CCW. If my main gun becomes inoperable or lost during a life-or-death incident, than that mousegun will be worth more than a box full of spare magazines for my defunct primary piece.
 
Too much of the GunsnAmmo effect with some shop owners/denizens. Got to have the fool thing with you...and at times it's not possible to do much more than fit it in a pocket. I wouldn't be to happy with a zinc .22- but .32 and up and a good maker, serves a niche. Funny thing...this has all happened before. In the late 19th century west (a considerably less violent place than our turn of the century) pocket revolvers were common..as these were simply less of a nuisance in the duties of day to day. Some of us today can't go around with bulges and leather straps showing under our clothing. With the GunsnAmmo effect-and the straps and suit approach(narc fashion statements?) exactly who do they think they're fooling with that?
 
As you can see from the previous posts, one of the quickest ways to lose a long term customer is to try to sell them something they don't want. People want things for different reasons. You may not know them. I notice that a lot of people on these boards are interested in one particular aspect of the shooting game and their posts reflect that they never consider the idea that everybody isn't in to your particular brand of shooting. As an example; I own a P32. I didn't buy it for self defense. I have a safe full of better guns for self defense. I bought it just because I enjoy trying new guns. I read a lot about the P32 on the internet and in the rags and wanted to see what all the fuss was about. I personally have very little interest in the self defense aspects of gun ownership. Therefore, I may ask about buying a gun, you don't think it is suitable for self defense because that is where your interest lie, but to me the customer it means nothing. As another poster commented, when I go into a gun shop I am usually not looking for advice. I spend a lot of time reading about the shooting sports and I spend a lot of time actually shooting. I have done this for many years. This doesn't make me an expert but I have formed my opinions already before I decide to buy something. I learned a valuable lesson as a kid on this very subject. My best friends' dad wanted to buy a really accurate .22 for squirel hunting. He decided what he wanted and went to the local dealer to order one. The local dealer gave him the, you don't want that, that is a POS, what you want is this. So he bought the store owners recommended .22. He shot it and thought it was a POS and blamed the dealer for it. He never bought another gun from him again. If a guy buys something that he really wants that is a POS, that is his fault. If he complains to you about it, you can tell him that you only sold him what he wanted. If he buys something that is a POS on your recomendation, he holds you responsible. And you probably just lost a customer. Don't forget the gun business is just that, a business. These people are trying to make a living. They want to please the customer for the most part.
 
when shopping for my first pistol back in august or so, i did a lot of reading online, then went to the local gun shop. i had my eye on 2 pistols, the taurus p-111 and the kel-tec p-11. mainly because of my small hands, and price, and wanted a small 9mm that i would feel comfy carrying everyday all day. i was open to suggestions and the such. when i told him of my requirements, a small pistol for self defense that would fit in my small hands, he said a revoler. i told him that i didnt want a revolover, i wanted a pistol. i ended up leaving discoureged and did more reading and then went back when another salesperson was working who end being a lot more helpfull, and i ended up with a kel-tec p-11 and couldnt be happier
 
Why don't they...

Shooting has been my hobby for 40 or 50 years, and I think I know more than most gun store clerks about what I want. If I get a Bozo, I tell him I'm just looking, and move away until another guy comes by. The store owner might see it, after a while. As for small calibers, any gun is better than a stern word...
 
CrociJA,

Re Harry's prices, if you haven't purchased from him, then yes the quoted price is high. The more business you, the less you spend. And like someone said, let the economy decide. If someone comes in and is willing to pay $1000 for a Kimber that someone else has $800, then the purchaser should shop around first. The thing is Harry's is more than just a gunshop. It's one of the few places left where you can just sit around and shoot the bull.

At least we're pretty lucky to have several decent shops around. I forgot to mention I've had good luck with Jerry's in Ocala.

Email me and maybe we can get together and shoot sometime.
 
Depends on the spot.

I would say it depends on the environment. In one local store they only sell handguns, and "evil looking" rifles and such. No hunting rifles, or anything normal or inherently accurate. Basically just SKSs AKs and such. There is always at least ONE gunshop commando there. I have seen them tell my friend how great a certain AK variant was and how he knew all about it....as he tried to insert an empty magazine in the weapon upside down and backwards into the mag well... :rolleyes:

However for best service and a decent selection I go to the taxidermy shop. They are by far the most knowledgeable and I have yet to meet a gunshop commando in there. They will give you an honest opinion on anything they know about, and if they don't have any personal experience or knowledge they will tell you that also. They don't do the "don't buy a beretta the slide will fly off and kill you" or the "its a kel-tec too small and winmpy and they suck, buy a Glock". I say if you shop around your area you will find the places worth shopping. Even if it adds a few dollars to the bill it is worth it.
 
We here in central Alabama, may have the
finest gun shop's east of the Mississippi.
Run by a family of class individual's,
since the day's of the old pawn shops.
Down to earth good folk's; that will
bend over backwards, to treat a fellow
right. If in doubt; stop by and say
hello to the fine folk's at Simmons
Sporting Goods 2001-2nd Ave. North
in Bessemer, AL. Tell em' I sent you;
ya here?

Merry Christmas To All,
Ala Dan, Life Member N.R.A.
 
Could be that the guy was just an employee of the shop.

When I worked part-time at the shop, the owner carried a lot of what I consider to be crap guns, Davis, Lorcin, Jennings.

When someone would come in and would express interest in one of them I would always try to steer the person toward something just a LOT more reliable.

If they really wanted one of those guns, I'd sell it to them, but they'd know how I felt about it.
 
I saw exactly what CrociJA is talking about yesterday. Man has wife in tow to get her a "personal defense" weapon for at home (and maybe CCW when she gets it here in michigan). The guy was looking at the beretta 85F (.380) for her as it seemd to fit her hand size wise (and she had shot his .357 which had too much kick for her). Immediately the sales gal (yes sales gal with a glock on her hip) says you shouldn't buy that, especially if you my have to penetrate leather, the .380 won't (under my breath I go "HUH", where'd she hear that crap?). Then she's steered towards revolvers in .38 special, and them 9mm and .40 S&W's. etc. I left shaking my head. Shouldn't the approach first be to get something that fits her hand, strength etc to pull the trigger if it's a DA pull, etc? Then work to the alternatives in calibers from say .380 up (cause last time I checked, .380's and even .32's, especailly +P corbon for example) would hurt anybody hit. The message being buy the gun you can effectively shoot, enjoy shooting (cause you will practice as you should!). Confidence in it and your ability to hit with it outweigh (as others have also said) getting the "biggest piece" in the biggest caliber you can physically carry.
 
We had two ladies come into the range a few months back. Both had matching SP101's in .357 sold to them by another store as "the" defensive revolver.
Both stood about 5'6" and 120 pounds if that. They shot for about 15 minutes and never hit the target. I offered to observe them and see if I could make any suggestions. The long and short, way too much gun for them. They agreed, stating that they had shot it once after purchase and tried to return it, only to be told no returns on used weapons.
I offered pointers on technique and ammo choice but came away wondering why anyone would have recommended it to them.
 
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