Why did the 338 Federal fail?

C

cole k

New member
I have hunted and killed elk with 358 Win in timber and open areas all were less than 350 yards. I never had a shot longer that.
I have hunted and killed deer with the 35 Rem in timber, but passed on shots longer than 150 yards in open areas.

I think I want a 338 Federal to replace my 35 Rem deer rifle.
 
If you buy one, it hasn't failed, has it?

A friend dithered and waffled on getting a rifle rebarrelled to .358 and then the .338 Fed came out, so that is what he got.
 
I was unaware that it had.

They were never as popular as the 30-06 or 270, but they sell and there are men out here who use them. Everyone I know that has one likes it.

It's actually a practical and comfortable caliber for elk hunting in the woods and would do fine over most open ground too as long as it's not as flat as the Great Salt Flat.

As a custom gunmaker I often use old Mauser actions, and for that action the 338-06 is probably a better option. But for someone that wants to get a bit more power then the 308 has to offer, the re-barrel to the 338 fed is a good way to go. It will cover about 90% of the needs of most big game hunters.
 
What mean is, why did the 338 Federal failed as commercial cartage?

I know of no major company that is currently chambering a rifle for it.
 
The 338 federal is probably going to get you a bit of flatter shooting and range over the 358. I have a 358 and thus see no need for a 338 federal since I'm not taking shots beyond 500--at which distance the 358 win will still hammer them. I agree that getting a bigger case 338--if you go that route would make more sense. My less than 2 cents from the recliner armchair. : )

PS I think the 338 federal still has an "alternative lifestyle" in the AR 10 world--I've seen more of them out there than say an AR in 358 win--I'm the only person I know that has one. : )
 
The difference in 338 and 308 is about the thickness of a couple of sheets of paper. Once bullets have impacted and expanded you can't tell the difference between 30 caliber bullets and 33 caliber bullets. But in the same bullet weights the smaller diameter bullet will almost always penetrate deeper, shoot flatter, and retain energy better at longer ranges. None of the 338's or 358's offer any advantage over comparable 30's until you get into bullet weights too heavy to be fired in the 30's. The 338 magnums will do that, the 338 Fed not so much.

With the best loads a 338 fed will shoot 200 gr bullets about 100 fps faster than 308. At the muzzle the 338 looks a bit better, but within 150 yards the better aerodynamics of the 308 bullets mean more energy and the better SD's mean better penetration. In other words the 338 Fed just kicks more and offers marginal gains at under 150 yards. The 308 outperforms it beyond 150 yards.

The 338 Fed shoots 200 gr bullets at the same speed as 30-06 with about the same recoil. But the better BC's of the 30 caliber bullets start to make a difference at as close as 50 yards. The 30-06 gives up nothing at close ranges, but beyond 200 yards out performs 338 Fed dramatically.

There is nothing wrong with the 338 Fed. But especially as better bullets have become available it offers no advantages, and some disadvantages over the much more common 308 or 30-06. It is one of those rounds for guys who just don't want to hunt with a plain vanilla 308 or 30-06. I've been down that path several times over the years and have decided for me that vanilla is just fine. The 338 Fed is for guys who want butter pecan or some other exotic flavor. And there is nothing wrong with that either. But that is why the 338 Fed hasn't taken off. It's not that it doesn't work.
 
My guess is that the 338 fed will never take off as a chambering offered in any in any factory gun. Where it will hold it's own is in the semi-custom market where people can take any 243, 260 rem, 7-08 or 308 and have a good smith rebarrel it to a really good rifle with a lot of power in a short small light package. The selection of 338 bullets is quite good, and the 338 Fed shoots surprisingly flat for such a powerful and fat bullet. No...it's never going competition for a 7 mag or a 270 at long range, but that not what it's for. It does have more then enough range however for about 97% of all the hunting most people will ever do. It is thought of as a specialty round, but in fact it makes a very good general purpose round too.
So in my opinion its going to fall into the "handloaders and semi-custom rifle box."

I have only made one so far, but it was a real peach
We started with a Yugo M48 Mauser and barreled it with an 18" 338 barrel. I worked over the action to feed the 338 Federal loads smoothly. That was not hard to do.

Then I made a full length "Mannlicher" style stock with a mid-schenbel and loop sling swivels. I used a steel checkered butt plate with a widows-peak and made a nice trap grip cap. I made a shotgun style trigger guard for it too, and that made it look like a classic's classic.

I set it up with a standing blade rear sight zeroed at 200 with a flip up blade to zero at 300. I used German Silver for the forend escutcheons, the nose cap, and heat blued the screws, the swivel bases and the forend key.
I then put on a scope base and a 1.5X to 5X scope .

When it was done it was REALLY good looking. I kick myself because I didn't take any pictures of it.
It looked very much like the classic Mausers made in the 1920s and it weighed only 7 pounds 5 Oz, with the braided leather sling, scope, and fully loaded. With the scope removed it comes in under 7 pounds.

We set it up for a load with 210 grain Nosler Partition bullets and the same load with Speer 200 grain bullet shot just as well, but was much less expensive to fire. The rifle would shoot 5 rounds to just about 1 MOA. so it was all most hunters would really need or ask for.

My friend (Bill) who I made it for says it become his favorite rifle for all his hunting here in Wyoming and also on his land in Texas. He told me the others stay home now during hunting season.

I liked it so much I have thought to make it again, but the next one I'll keep if I do.

Working with the 338 fed when we did the loading of the ammo, I learned a bit about it, and I have to say its a round that should be considered closely by many. I had a lot to offer in a light short rifle with good range and power, less recoil then the big magnums and the kills Bill has made with it show me it lacks nothing that most American hunters would want.

I may do another in the coming summer but not a full custom job like Bills rifle. I have a friend in Nevada that has a daughter who grew up hunting with a Remington M7 in 243. She is now 24 years old and now wants to get into elk, and we talked last month about rebarreling her M7 for a 338 Fed.

So if I do it will be the 2nd one I have done. I am expecting to do a few more in the coming years too.
 
The difference in 338 and 308 is about the thickness of a couple of sheets of paper. Once bullets have impacted and expanded you can't tell the difference between 30 caliber bullets and 33 caliber bullets. But in the same bullet weights the smaller diameter bullet will almost always penetrate deeper, shoot flatter, and retain energy better at longer ranges. None of the 338's or 358's offer any advantage over comparable 30's until you get into bullet weights too heavy to be fired in the 30's. The 338 magnums will do that, the 338 Fed not so much.
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Thank you for saying so well what I have attempted to say in the past. What a bullet looks like going through the air is out the window when it hits meat. People like to talk about sectional density but if you are using a bullets that expands or fragments SD numbers no longer count.

WYOSMITH if I ever get the scratch and feel I have the time left I want you to build me a custom rifle. But I suspect I am wrapping up a hunting career and a custom gun may never happen. But its nice to dream of future deer and elk hunts. Deer maybe. But I doubt I will ever make it back to the Rocky Mountains. Sigh.:(
 
I think the .338 is a perfectly suitable cartridge, but it doesn't do anything the "big 4" of .308, .30-06, .270 and 7mm mag can't do. All of those handle elk, large black bears, and moose well enough. If you're lucky enough to have an opportunity to hunt bison or the great bears and need a bigger gun, the .338 Federal really isn't enough. So it ends up doing the same things as every other medium/big game cartridge, and there's no particular demand.
 
Well ratshooter, this getting old stuff is not for kids.
I am not down in the valley yet, but I guess I am over the hill myself.

Still, I'll make guns until I am dead. I'd do it if I were wealthy and didn't need to earn a living just because I like doing it.

My uncle died just last September on the night of the blood moon.
He was a WW2 vet and played at life until his last 3 days. He died at 96 years old.
He told me that we don't get too old to play.
If we stop playing we get old.
I think he was right.

Never give up!
 
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It answered a question nobody asked. Doesn't do anything any better than any existing cartridge. It's one of the many 'new' things that get made because the manufacturers think they have to bring out new stuff regularly or risk losing market share.
Lot of proprietary stuff is like that. The .26 and .28 Nosler are examples of the same thing.
"...getting old stuff is not for kids..." Isn't for the faint of heart either.
 
I don't know if there is a popular factory rifle available for 8mm Remington Magnum, 338/06 A-Square, 358 Winchester, 350 Remington, 356 Winchester, or 35 Whelen. There was no reason to think the 338 Federal would catch on as a standard chambering.
 
I recently built a 358 win--fabulous cartridge IMO. A bullet leaving the muzzle with 3200 ftlbs of energy and makes a really big hole is not an insignificant thing : )

 
Hey Stag
I have talked to a few men about doing as 358 on an AR 10, but none of us know how the fatter bullet and case neck will work from 308 magazines.
The forward rib of the mag acts as a guide for the case neck/shoulder on the 308 cartridge and the 358 being bigger around, I was wondering if that will cause problems.

Can you educate me?
 
Hey Stag
I have talked to a few men about doing as 358 on an AR 10, but none of us know how the fatter bullet and case neck will work from 308 magazines.
The forward rib of the mag acts as a guide for the case neck/shoulder on the 308 cartridge and the 358 being bigger around, I was wondering if that will cause problems.

Can you educate me?
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Maybe I just got lucky--but this build shot perfectly from the very first cartridge with no issues whatsoever (once I got through the mess of getting the parts lol)--didn't need to adjust or tweak anything. I haven't had a single feed issue with any magazine I've used so far (Pmag and DPMS). I used a KAK barrel--groups 225 gamekings MOA at 100--I have yet to try some other hand loads. You'll need to freeze the barrel and heat the receiver to install the barrel--but I believe the tight fit is worth the accuracy. With the Kantrol brake on it tames the 358 to shoot like a pussycat--no worse than a regular 308 IMO.

I love my build--you should go for it! : )

PS--The only "issue" I can think of--as with any AR platform rifle--is that you'll be limited by the COAL capability of the magazines.
 
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The market for useful cartridges has already filled every conceivable niche. There is simply no need for new cartridges. While the 338 Federal performs well, it really does nothing that can't be done by other cartridges that have already been well established and popular.
 
The market for useful cartridges has already filled every conceivable niche. There is simply no need for new cartridges.
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I heaven't met too many people that have shot every conceivable cartridge under every conceivable circumstance. ; )
 
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