Why are Revolvers More Expensive Than Autos?
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David the Gnome
New member
Revolvers require hand fitting by a qualified smith in order to function properly and safely, you pay extra for that smith's time and skills.
mikejonestkd
New member
Its not a fair comparison to put a model 22A against a model 617.
Try a smith model 41 VS a 617 and you'll see that hand fitting and smith work does have its price..
Try a smith model 41 VS a 617 and you'll see that hand fitting and smith work does have its price..
Lost Sheep
New member
Revolvers get higher prices why?
'Cause they're better.
OK, I couldn't resist.
A lot of pricing, and most of marketing is mysterious and arcane. Why did Ruger drop the SP101 in 22 RF? Supposedly the gun did not sell enough units. Yet used ones sell before they hit the ads.
Back to your question. Many revolvers have extensive fitting and precisoion machining to manufacture them. At the very least, there are multiple chambers to the SA's one. Many (not all by any means) semi-autos are simpler to machine, so cheaper per unit to manufacture. Economies of scale apply also.
So, if a SA costs $100 to produce and a Revolver costs $150 to produce, the variable costs on the revolver are $50 higher than on the SA.
The the fixed costs (which, by the definition of the accounting term of art "Fixed Costs" as those costs which remain constant, independent of how many units are produced, as contrasted with "Variable Costs" which are fixed per unit, so vary in accordance with how many units are produced), if the SA production is 1,000 units a year and the revolver production is 200 units a year the fixed costs are spread five times thicker on the revolvers than the Semi-Autos.
All this is speculation, based on basic cost accounting.
Then there is the economics. People are obviously willing to pay the prices being charged. Why? Revolvers can fire more powerful ammunition than semi-automatic handguns (generally). The 45 ACP and the 10mm are considered to be pretty powerful semiauto rounds, but are relatively light compared to the 44 Magnum, much less the 454 Casull, 475 Linebaugh, 500 Smith & Wesson. Some legal restrictions make revolvers more attractive. In California, Single Action revolvers are less restricted than Double Action revolvers or semi-automatic handguns.
In short, while I don't know, I think I have a clue or two.
Also, setting prices is a marketing decision, made by humans who may have flaws in their thinking as much as anyone.
Lost Sheep.
'Cause they're better.
OK, I couldn't resist.
A lot of pricing, and most of marketing is mysterious and arcane. Why did Ruger drop the SP101 in 22 RF? Supposedly the gun did not sell enough units. Yet used ones sell before they hit the ads.
Back to your question. Many revolvers have extensive fitting and precisoion machining to manufacture them. At the very least, there are multiple chambers to the SA's one. Many (not all by any means) semi-autos are simpler to machine, so cheaper per unit to manufacture. Economies of scale apply also.
So, if a SA costs $100 to produce and a Revolver costs $150 to produce, the variable costs on the revolver are $50 higher than on the SA.
The the fixed costs (which, by the definition of the accounting term of art "Fixed Costs" as those costs which remain constant, independent of how many units are produced, as contrasted with "Variable Costs" which are fixed per unit, so vary in accordance with how many units are produced), if the SA production is 1,000 units a year and the revolver production is 200 units a year the fixed costs are spread five times thicker on the revolvers than the Semi-Autos.
All this is speculation, based on basic cost accounting.
Then there is the economics. People are obviously willing to pay the prices being charged. Why? Revolvers can fire more powerful ammunition than semi-automatic handguns (generally). The 45 ACP and the 10mm are considered to be pretty powerful semiauto rounds, but are relatively light compared to the 44 Magnum, much less the 454 Casull, 475 Linebaugh, 500 Smith & Wesson. Some legal restrictions make revolvers more attractive. In California, Single Action revolvers are less restricted than Double Action revolvers or semi-automatic handguns.
In short, while I don't know, I think I have a clue or two.
Also, setting prices is a marketing decision, made by humans who may have flaws in their thinking as much as anyone.
Lost Sheep.
Economics
Lost Sheep, I agree with your first sentence 100% - because they are better. I'm a revolver guy personally as well.
But here is the economics for those who care:
Marginal Revenue (price to consumer) equals marginal cost (production cost). This is a basic law of an open market equilibrium. This is the economic law that I would concentrate on for this discussion.
This goes back to the earlier comments about revolvers costing more to produce than semi's. Of course you can spend as much as you want on either but in a direct comparison (LCR vs. LCP) the one that costs more to make will cost more to buy.
I also agree with the fixed costs discussion in theory. However, if Springfield decided tomorrow that they were going to make a revolver, that decision should not be influenced by the fixed costs of their legal team, existing factories, etc. They have those costs for their current lines. If they need to add a new factory and engineers then those need to be factored. But in the end they will produce as many revolvers as they can make money on (marginal revenue = marginal cost).
Lost Sheep, I agree with your first sentence 100% - because they are better. I'm a revolver guy personally as well.
But here is the economics for those who care:
Marginal Revenue (price to consumer) equals marginal cost (production cost). This is a basic law of an open market equilibrium. This is the economic law that I would concentrate on for this discussion.
This goes back to the earlier comments about revolvers costing more to produce than semi's. Of course you can spend as much as you want on either but in a direct comparison (LCR vs. LCP) the one that costs more to make will cost more to buy.
I also agree with the fixed costs discussion in theory. However, if Springfield decided tomorrow that they were going to make a revolver, that decision should not be influenced by the fixed costs of their legal team, existing factories, etc. They have those costs for their current lines. If they need to add a new factory and engineers then those need to be factored. But in the end they will produce as many revolvers as they can make money on (marginal revenue = marginal cost).
Years ago it was reversed. A good revolver was much less than a good auto. Back then cops mostly carried revolvers and the market share for autos was reduced because most casual shooters tended to buy what the cops bought.
Then came the JSSAP trials and the retrials that resulted in the adoption of the Beretta M9. Several Cop shops bought into the Hi-cap semi auto concept such as the Conneticut State Police. The GLOCK 17 was imported and was a "DAO" according to the ATF and as such was adopted by several major agencies that required DAO on their revolvers. Miami FL is one. After the FBI switched and the term "Wonder Nine" was coined, the race was on by the manufacturers as well as LE agencies to get the "latest thing".
Revolvers fell out of favor and were traded in by the boatload for the new autos. S&W Model 10's were being sold for less than $100 to get them out the door. My best price was $70 for one that was a holster worn trade-in but in great mechanical shape.
Now we have the pendelum coming back the other way. The revolver as eptomized by the S&W "J" frame has become the Back-up gun of choice for many. Fine revolvers with superior accuracy are being rediscovered. Collecting the classic revolvers has become popular and the limited market share of new guns keeps numbers low and prices high. The hand labor cost as well is a consideration that has been mentioned earlier.
Bottom line...the revolver has become a niche piece that does some jobs better than an auto and supports a limited fan base while still being produced in limited numbers at a higher cost.
As for me...a S&W Model 19 Combat Magnum was my carry piece on the 28th of June and often gets carry time because I shoot it well, know it well. trust it completely and know it is more accurate than any of my personal semi-autos. Truly a classic and viable personal defense weapon as well in these troubled times.
My opinion and worth every cent you paid for it.
Then came the JSSAP trials and the retrials that resulted in the adoption of the Beretta M9. Several Cop shops bought into the Hi-cap semi auto concept such as the Conneticut State Police. The GLOCK 17 was imported and was a "DAO" according to the ATF and as such was adopted by several major agencies that required DAO on their revolvers. Miami FL is one. After the FBI switched and the term "Wonder Nine" was coined, the race was on by the manufacturers as well as LE agencies to get the "latest thing".
Revolvers fell out of favor and were traded in by the boatload for the new autos. S&W Model 10's were being sold for less than $100 to get them out the door. My best price was $70 for one that was a holster worn trade-in but in great mechanical shape.
Now we have the pendelum coming back the other way. The revolver as eptomized by the S&W "J" frame has become the Back-up gun of choice for many. Fine revolvers with superior accuracy are being rediscovered. Collecting the classic revolvers has become popular and the limited market share of new guns keeps numbers low and prices high. The hand labor cost as well is a consideration that has been mentioned earlier.
Bottom line...the revolver has become a niche piece that does some jobs better than an auto and supports a limited fan base while still being produced in limited numbers at a higher cost.
As for me...a S&W Model 19 Combat Magnum was my carry piece on the 28th of June and often gets carry time because I shoot it well, know it well. trust it completely and know it is more accurate than any of my personal semi-autos. Truly a classic and viable personal defense weapon as well in these troubled times.
My opinion and worth every cent you paid for it.
do they?
Do revolvers cost more than SAs? Across the board?
I just pulled out a copy of Gun Digest and looked at Rugers and S&Ws. Looking at both semis and revolvers, they seemed to have similar price ranges.
In general, the high end - stepping away from Ruger and Smith - is dominated by Semis.
It is, though, a bit like comparing apples and oranges since the chamberings are very different. Take Rugers, for example, do they make an semi that compares to a Blackhawk or a Vaquero? Same applies to S&W. Are these properly comparable?
Pete
Do revolvers cost more than SAs? Across the board?
I just pulled out a copy of Gun Digest and looked at Rugers and S&Ws. Looking at both semis and revolvers, they seemed to have similar price ranges.
In general, the high end - stepping away from Ruger and Smith - is dominated by Semis.
It is, though, a bit like comparing apples and oranges since the chamberings are very different. Take Rugers, for example, do they make an semi that compares to a Blackhawk or a Vaquero? Same applies to S&W. Are these properly comparable?
Pete
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Mike Irwin
Staff
A superior product is ALWAYS more expensive...
Darkgael - A lot depends on intercompany competition. Retail prices tend to be somewhat inflexible. You can't charge much more than the competition for products which tend to be equal in perceived value, regardless the manufacturing cost.
There are few "secrets" in manufacturing. Unless your company has some process which is so closely held, as to be a trade secret, it's difficult to get an edge over the competition. For instance, forging is forging is forging. Not much of a secret there. And investment casting is well known across the industry. The secret comes in eliminating extraneous costs, and keeping things like scrap, to a minimum.
There are few "secrets" in manufacturing. Unless your company has some process which is so closely held, as to be a trade secret, it's difficult to get an edge over the competition. For instance, forging is forging is forging. Not much of a secret there. And investment casting is well known across the industry. The secret comes in eliminating extraneous costs, and keeping things like scrap, to a minimum.
oneounceload
Moderator
Ever heard of Korth???
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
Metal cost more than plastic?
If you compare similar quality, similar sizes, and similar materials then I don't think that they are necessarily more expensive.
If you compare similar quality, similar sizes, and similar materials then I don't think that they are necessarily more expensive.
pricing of most products is a complicated thing, but inevitably ends up being price it to make the most net profit.
revolvers typically require more hand work than semi-autos, and often are made of materials that are more expensive.
but the biggest factor probably is the sheer numbers involved. revolvers just don't sell as well so there is not the economy of scale.
OTOH, there are low volume semiautos that are very pricey too.
revolvers typically require more hand work than semi-autos, and often are made of materials that are more expensive.
but the biggest factor probably is the sheer numbers involved. revolvers just don't sell as well so there is not the economy of scale.
OTOH, there are low volume semiautos that are very pricey too.
It's an apples/oranges comparison. Semi autos (with the possible exception of 1911s, which I'll talk about in a bit) are made in much greater quantities than revolvers. Guns like Glocks, S & W M & Ps or Sigmas, Springfield XDs, etc., are made for a mass market, military, police, civilian, and the manufacturers get the benefit of economies of scale.
By contrast, revolvers these days are pretty much made for a niche market. Very few of Smith or Ruger's revolvers have a production run of more than a few thousand, as opposed to the tens of thousands of Glocks that get churned out every year. Consequently, the manufacturers don't get economies of scale and have to price their products accordingly.
However, when you compare a "niche revolver" with a "nice semi-auto", then the price differential vanishes or even tips against the semi-autos. That becomes obvious when you look at the market for 1911s. I realize that some manufacturers are producing mass-market lower cost 1911s. But, for the most part, these guns are aimed at tiny slivers of the overall market and, as a consequence, there are no economies of scale in their manufacture. The end result: top of the line 1911s, like top of the line revolvers, are expensive.
By contrast, revolvers these days are pretty much made for a niche market. Very few of Smith or Ruger's revolvers have a production run of more than a few thousand, as opposed to the tens of thousands of Glocks that get churned out every year. Consequently, the manufacturers don't get economies of scale and have to price their products accordingly.
However, when you compare a "niche revolver" with a "nice semi-auto", then the price differential vanishes or even tips against the semi-autos. That becomes obvious when you look at the market for 1911s. I realize that some manufacturers are producing mass-market lower cost 1911s. But, for the most part, these guns are aimed at tiny slivers of the overall market and, as a consequence, there are no economies of scale in their manufacture. The end result: top of the line 1911s, like top of the line revolvers, are expensive.
Winchester_73
New member
Sometimes you have to look a little more deep than they being the same caliber. You will find that this particular comparison has no weight since the 22a was never meant to compete against the 617. The 22A and the like is at best an entry level 22 auto while a 617 is meant to be a sophisticated 22 revolver. It depends on which automatic and which revolver. A sig P210 (9mm) costs about $3000 to $5000 while a S&W 547 (9mm revolver?) costs maybe $800. But here again, we have a quality difference. I and most other people would much rather have the P210. In your comparison you should compare a 617 to a 41 like another poster stated. Once again the semi is more money cause in this case, I think a 41 is better than a 617, imho.
Lost Sheep
New member
You think revolvers and autos are different?
The accountant in me went straight to the cost of production way of setting prices on the guns produced. The economist focuses on the decision of whether or not to produce the NEXT gun. And yes, Maustypesu is precisely correct; it is the marginal revenue and marginal cost that informs that decision.
Price setting. It is not only profit, accounting and economics but also marketing. The waters are muddier than ballistics.
Lost sheep.
If you think wheelguns and self-loaders are different, compare accountants and economists.maustypsu said:
The accountant in me went straight to the cost of production way of setting prices on the guns produced. The economist focuses on the decision of whether or not to produce the NEXT gun. And yes, Maustypesu is precisely correct; it is the marginal revenue and marginal cost that informs that decision.
Price setting. It is not only profit, accounting and economics but also marketing. The waters are muddier than ballistics.
Lost sheep.
Housezealot
New member
IMHO a lot of it has to do with how well they sell, I see a lot of young guys who "want a glock" or something similiar, also it seems most people carry autos. I see way more auto sales at the local gunshop. I am a revolver guy but i do tend to carry an auto becuse its easier to for me to conceal.
I don't think a lot of new gun buyers appreciate the fit and feel of a revolver becuse thats not what the big current action stars have on screen
I think this lack of demand makes a revolver more of a specialty item.
I don't think a lot of new gun buyers appreciate the fit and feel of a revolver becuse thats not what the big current action stars have on screen
I think this lack of demand makes a revolver more of a specialty item.
Alot depends on what guns you are discussing. S&W offers it's M625JM in .45acp with an MSRP of below 1100. It's lowest priced 1911 has an MSRP of 1200. or so. Actual street price may be about even and will vary a bit by area and shop.
The cost of a semi custom Freedom Arms Premier Grade is comparable to the cost of many higher end semi custom 1911s.
A fellas could likely get a Taurus or Ruger in .45acp (if Ruger made one) or .44 for a couple of hundred less than the cost of the Smith.
Where the gun is manufactured also effects price. If the gun is completely or partly made in an area with lower labor costs that will effect price. Croatia, Turkey, Brazil versus Mass.
Manufacturing methods also play a role. Ruger's use of casting lowers the price per unit compared to S&Ws. The widespread adoption of CNC machining and the contracting out of small parts also effects price and the cost of production per unit.
No major manufacturer has gunsmiths fit their guns any longer. They are fit by assemblers.
With semis the use of stampings and polymers has lowered the cost greatly. In the case of Springfields Croation made XD several factors come into play. Modern production methods, less expensive materials, lower labor costs, less time of production, etc.
To produce a da wheelgun requires several more operations than those required of a polymer semi and thus lower costs per unit. In general revolvers hold their price longer on the used gun market than the polymer handguns.
tipoc
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