Why an "assault rifle"?

M

MatthewM

New member
Truly looking for education here, nothing political at all. I'm ignorant on AR15 type rifles.

I'm buying one or two of each type of firearm.
For home defense, we have a 1911.
I'm thinking that, if I ever had to defend myself from an all out assault, it would be best to making a retreat armed with the 1911 and a "varmint" bolt action.

In what situations are an AR15 better and why?

How is an AR15 better than a hunting style semi-auto?

Are they designed how they are strictly because they are auto in military use?
 
A heavy barreled bolt action can have long range applications if you are out of effective range of their weapons and they are within the effective range of yours. An AR-15 style might put you on a bit more even terms if the bad guys are relatively close and armed with intermediate power auto loading or fully automatics-say a few hundred yards or closer. I guess the biggest trick is to keep them far enough away to make an escape rather than trying to engage numbers of people who have PREPARED for a full assault while you're out mowing the dandilions with the rest of us. Finally, you can, given time, prepare for just about anything, even if its taking all the sharp instruments out of your back pockets.....but what is more likely is to be caught off guard and precious seconds to loose, might want to forego a dedicated bolt varmint and go with a bit more firepower unless you can purchase and practice with both,IMHO.
 
The AR15 wins out because of its light weight, huge amount of pre-ban magazines available and almost universal supply of spare parts, amoung other things.

Not many hunting-style semi-autos are as probably as the Ar15 design, thus spare parts would not be as readily available. Most AR15 parts do not require fitting, so if your rifle broke new parts could just be dropped in and it would function. Also, if you came upon a dropped (and probably broken) military weapon, it would be quite easy to change your rifle to have full-auto parts (by swapping lowers and bolt carriers)

If it is a hunting-style weapon, I doubt many 10 round magazines are available for it, much less 30 rounders. (Excluding the Mini14)

The ghost-ring sights are easy to use, since your brain instinctively centers the frontsight in the rear ring. You dont have to worry about lining the tops of the sights up as you do with regular iron sights. With a $20 scope base, you can mount any Weaver-style rings and scopes on the carry handle, thus giving you many sighting options that can easily be removed if broken in the field.

The Ar15 is ergonomic: The selector is easy to activate with your thumb and the magazine catch is easy to reach with your index finger. Magazine changes are faster than a Mini14 style because magazines are inserted straight in, no tipping the magazine or any of that crap. The pistol grip can be changed to fit your hand. You can get PSG-1-style grips, Pachymer grips that are similar to the grips on a revolver, or just stick with the standard grip.

The Ar15 has extremely low recoil due to the in-line stock and buffer arrangement and any muzzle devices only add to the controlability. This make it very easy to control under rapid fire.

.22lr kits are cheap and easy to use, so hunting varmints would be possible without wasting any .223 ammo.

Basically, the Ar15 is one of the most versital systems around. If the round will fit in the magazine well (or you want to spin a screw driver all day long for a .50bmg), you could get someone to make an upper to use that round. 9mm, .45acp, 7.62x39, .22lr, .223, .458socom, .44mag, .50ae are all calibers the Ar15 can use after pushing out two pins, replacing the upper and pushing in a new magazine.

Kharn
 
What Kharn said about the versatility of the AR15 is certainly true. Not only can you swap out upper assemblies to go between various pistol type chamberings and rifle chamberings, you can also change out the entire upper assembly and within seconds go from a light weight quick handling carbine to a heavy barreled very accurate long range scoped configuration. Not too many rifles offer this level of adaptability to the user.


Think of it as a sort of semiauto Thompson Contender.



As for using an AR15 for home defense? If I could get away with it I'd love to, problem is I'm horribly affraid of the muzzle blast that would be coming out of a carbine AR15. Using a 45 or a shotgun indoors is bad enough as is but using an AR15? I value my hearing too much, maybe if I got a pair of sound dampening electronic earmuffs and kept them around the handguards of the AR15 for quick access then I'd think about it a bit more seriously.

I think the little 223Rem cartridge could serve VERY well in a home defense setting if only the sound wasn't at issue, as well as the fact that you'd be lawyer meat if you were in a sue happy state or city where they have nothing better to do than procecute gun owners for using a "militaristic" firearm in defense of their life.

Two advantages I see to the AR15 for home defense both come into play when used by a woman. Compare the AR15 to a shotgun, it's easier to load or to reload and it is also easier to control. Compare it to a semiautomatic pistol, loading is a similar process but I find that women have an easier time pulling the charging handle of an AR15 as opposed to most of them having a problem pulling back the slide of most pistols unless they practice lots, a pistol can also be pretty hard to control as well. It's also easy to adapt the AR15 so that it is suitable for night time shooting, it's similar to putting the night sights on a shotgun or a handgun but with the AR15 and it's near absense of any felt recoil the sight picture remains on target for shot after shot.

Of all the firearms I own, when I take the gals out shooting the AR15 is the one they really enjoy shooting and take a liking to the soonest.


Also take a look at the current switch from 9mm chambered subguns to 223Rem carbines that the police departments are using for entry teams, they've found the 223Rem to be a safer indoors round when the appropriate loads are used like the fragile varmint type bullets or the lead tipped spire point bullets. These fragile little rounds coming out of the 223Rem have very little chance of over penetration when you hit your target, the bullets also have less of a chance of exiting a wall intact if you should miss as opposed to if it was a heavier construction 9mm bullet. Check around and you should be able to find data that supports this, if not somebody in here will likely have article resources.



Then for it being a good all around firearm? The trajectory of the 223Rem is such that it offers an advantage over both handguns and shotguns in terms of longer range shots where being able to fire a precisely aimed shot is a must. It's good at short range and it shoots flat enough that it's adequate at medium ranges as well, it's not the most authoratative long range chambering(300-400+yards) but I don't think anybody will be using it much for those sorts of distances other than the odd goofball who likes to use their AR15 for varmint shooting.



It's just a shame that the rifle generates so much negative press, not just by the media but by other "shooters" as well who figure all a person should ever need in life is a bolt action for deer hunting and a shotgun for quail hunting. I was nearly so angry that I could spit when Mrs. Dole appeared on the Rosie O'donell show and said in front of all those brainwashed viewers, "Nobody needs an AK47 to defend their home." The AR15 is lumped right in there with all those AK47 clones and so basically one could take it to mean "nobody needs an AR15 to defend their home", but the truth of the matter is that it's really rather well suited to it. If it's good enough for the police to use in an indoor environment and they are switching to it because it is considered by them to be "safer" then why the hell shouldn't we be allowed to decide for ourselves if it is well suited for our use? I mean honestly, the two situations have many of the same concerns at hand with regards to being able to stop a target, not harm anyone else after having shot the target, having a lower risk of causing harm to others if you should miss, and being able to use a firearm that is simple to use in such a situation.




P.S. I'm the "goofball" that likes to use one of his AR15s for long range squirrel shooting, 400 yards is the longest range hit I've had to date while at 500-550 yards I've had lots of near hits where I was kicking dirt in their faces and putting bullets under their bellies.



P.S.S This should have gone up at the top of the response I typed out, "Oh man! Why'd you have to ask that question and set me off?" It's not really the fact that you asked the question though, I don't mind answering it. It's the fact that many people out there just don't realize just how suitable the AR15 could be or have been brainwashed into thinking that anyone who would even dare use an AR15 must be some kind of militant wacko that sits at home all day waiting for an intruder to walk through their door just so they can shoot the person. I love the AR15 so I'm a little sensitive on the matter, I've got 3 AR15s that are in various configurations as well as an AR10 chambered in 308Winchester that is going to be the basis for a future build. I've had nothing but good experiences with them and I see many positive attributes to the design.
 
First off, my apologies for being a resident of California.

I'd agree with everything Ugly Gun said, with a few reservations.

For home defense a shotgun is superior, it is the single most powerful and effective self defense weapon readily available. In terms of effectiveness at stopping a person, rifles and pistols don't come close to the effectiveness of a shotgun. For home defense you want a shotgun. To use the often repeated expression, you use your handgun to fight your way to your shotgun.

To better answer your question it would help if we knew what sort of all out assault you were planning on. In a riot, I'd want an assault rifle, why? Intimidation, and I'd have it decked out to look mean and scary.

The problem with the matter is that all guns are best suited to specific roles. A handgun is there (or should be) 100% of the time. It is a short range weapon, of limited power (even a .45). A Shotgun is a slightly longer range weapon, with devestating power. It is useful to about 100 yards, more if you're using slugs. It is versatile and has less threat for penetration than even a .223. It will almost ALWAYS knock them down in one shot (presuming you aren't using slugs). An assault style rifle, like the AR-15, is designed for medium range. It is the most versatile of rifles. 100-300 yards or so for the AR-15, though it can be used at greater ranges if certain conditions are met. A Bolt action, with a good scope, is ideally suited for longer range work, 300-1000 if your accuracy is up to it. Problem is most fighting isn't done in this range. Doesn't mean you don't want one. You want a handgun, shotgun, assault rifle, and long range rifle.

For more information on this sorta stuff, try these sites:
http://www.easley.net/warlord/gunz.htm
http://www.FirearmsTactical.com

the first one has survival type information, the second will tell you a lot about firearms ballistics, penetration and that sorta thing. They recommend #1 buck shot if I'm not mistaken to minimize penetration, while still getting enough penetration to really mess the badguy up.

-Morgan
 
Many of us choose firearms strictly for sporting purposes. That means a shotgun & 30-06, maybe a 22 rifle for misc.
A 2nd purpose is the collector.
A 3rd purpose is home defense against a burglar or whatever.

Another purpose is defense of your home, family and community against attack by a govt foreign or domestic. This one is at the heart of the 2nd amendmant. It is in the constitution because of potential need against a domestic govt and mentions militia as protection against foreign govt.

Now, without sounding like a "waco", here is where I'm at. I owned guns when I was a kid for hunting & because I like them. Now I'm 40 and started buying again specifically before the last election in fear of our govt following the lead of UK and Australia. A well founded fear.

Many oft quote the "from my cold dead fingers". I would rather my fingers stay warm, yet not give in. Because of a lack of exposure to the type, I'm wanting to become more knowlegeable about the "assault" type weapon.

I'm more in fear of govt employees than bad guys. Most all bad guys will choose a house with no one home and run when they find out you are there. Especially if you let them know you are armed. Gov't won't do either.

To survive such a confrontation, I was thinking .45 to stop the advance. Varmint bolt action to pin down during retreat. No way you can hold your ground very long & live for another day.

Now, I'm not real sure about a bench rest quality gun that is only single shot. Seems too far away from the 30 rd mag semi auto. Wondering where along the continuom to make my choice & know nothing about the AR15 type weapon.

ps: Can't wait to save enough $$$ to move to the country!
 
Don't get me wrong, right now I've got a Remington 870 stoked with 2 3/4inch Magnum No2 alternating with reduced recoil slugs. For now it's my goto gun.


But I'm so much more confident in my skills with an AR15 now after 2-3 years of solid use and practice with the rifles that I really prefer them. And that's saying a lot considering how much hunting I used to do with my shotguns and how comfortable I am with them as well.


Yeah, 8 shots of 12 gauge rounds plus a few backups on the buttcuff shell carrier is quite a lot of force and god forbid I should need more than 1-3 shots coming from my 870.

I'd really like to use the AR15 for home defense but I'm not quite set to do that yet. My "welcome mat",
niteleft.jpg


Love the always on Trijicon Reflex, even without the "shoot me" light it stands out very clearly at night. Also love the idea of the dot staying on target during all shots fired without having to manipulate a pump action, worrying about fumbling reloads or having to handle seperate shells for a reload.


AR15s really tickle my fancy. No, it's not as powerful as a direct hit with a shotgun but well chosen rounds coming from an AR15 are certainly a force to be reckoned with.




If I ever move to Colorado with the "make my day" law and manage to get into the NFA stuff I'll likely get a preban and just throw a Gemtech can on it, then I won't have to worry so much about the shooting indoors problem nor will I need to worry so much about muzzle flash either. Now I'm dreaming outloud again.
 
If you are concerned with defense, especially against a foreign or domestic government, a semi-automatic rifle is almost a must. With a few targets, you could sniper them at a distance with a nice bolt action. You will have the advantage in that if you see them coming. On the other hand, you might find yourself several yards away from several enemies. Even if you are darn good, you will probably wind up taking a couple of them with you at best. With a semi, however, you actually have a fighting chance. I have heard great things about the AR. I don't own one though. I own a Mini 14. That might be a good choice for you as well, if you are going to be in Kalifornia for a while.

Note: The above isn't just for defense of a corrupt government. It will also work extremely well in case of a riot in which your family and home are in danger of a looting.
 
Since you're still in CA, AR's and AK's are completely out of the question, legally. You know, SB23 compounded by Rooberti-Roos being declared constitutional by CA supreme ct.

The mini 14 would be good.

A M1A would be better. 7.62x51 is a versitile and powerful cartridge and the M1A is a good platform for it.

You might also look into the HK SL-6 (.223) and SL-7 (7.62x51). They're very accurate and are fairly PC.
 
No doubt the AR is a very effective weapon, and can be had in very respectable match configurations to cover both a fairly long range shooting proposition as well as being deadly in a close up, multiple BG situation. Shotguns are great up close, but effective range is not much better than a pistol. I do not currently own an autoloading centerfire, but that situation is going to be rectified shortly. Have the long range stuff covered in my 700 VS in 308, which is my primary meat getter-no good for a stalking rifle, but we get some long shots in west texas, and snipe from stands.
 
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