I've been shooting rifles for about a year now, and one thing keeps striking me when I go to the range. Most of the time, I'm the only one who shoots standing up. I understand the need for a bench rest when sighting in, but what possible use can it have after that? I know for a fact that most of the shooters at my range are also hunters, and it seems to me that bench rests are few and far between in the woods. Am I missing something here?
Why am I the only one standing up at the range?
- Thread starter Cosmoline
- Start date
Legionnaire
New member
Well, there are lots of reasons folks shoot exclusively from the bench. Possibly, they are benchrest shooters: i.e., they compete for the smallest group, and shooting from the bench is the way it's done. Maybe they are reloaders who are checking new loads for accuracy. Possibly they are just paper punching.
Your question seems to assume that folks should shoot from other positions as well. High power competitors do, as do those practicing "practical" rifle skills such as hunting or defense. As a hunter, I always shoot a few from the bench to check zero, then move to other likely positions: offhand, kneeling, sitting, prone, etc., as you suggest, the positions I'll more likely shoot from in the field.
As someone (Jeff Cooper?) said, if you can get closer, get closer; if you can get lower, get lower; if you can get more stable, get more stable. My rule when hunting is shoot from some form of rest if at all possible. Those shooting from the bench at the range are just shooting from (arguably) the most stable position available.
Your question seems to assume that folks should shoot from other positions as well. High power competitors do, as do those practicing "practical" rifle skills such as hunting or defense. As a hunter, I always shoot a few from the bench to check zero, then move to other likely positions: offhand, kneeling, sitting, prone, etc., as you suggest, the positions I'll more likely shoot from in the field.
As someone (Jeff Cooper?) said, if you can get closer, get closer; if you can get lower, get lower; if you can get more stable, get more stable. My rule when hunting is shoot from some form of rest if at all possible. Those shooting from the bench at the range are just shooting from (arguably) the most stable position available.
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
Throw an optic lock on the type of rifle and the type of ammo the other shooters are using. You can usually tell if it's a target rig with handloads, or a "just huntin'" rifle and factory ammo.
Among this latter group are many who just never have given thought to shooting from other than a bench or some other fairly steady rest. IMNSHO, you're smarter than they are.
, Art
Among this latter group are many who just never have given thought to shooting from other than a bench or some other fairly steady rest. IMNSHO, you're smarter than they are.
, ArtJorah Lavin
New member
Same here in NC at the range I shoot at...
It is actually difficult to find a time to shoot rifles any other way than bench-rest at that range; everyone seems to be into tight groups, and you almost never see offhand, much less prone or kneeling. I've almost stopped doing any rifle shooting because it isn't much fun (to me... I know tastes vary!) to just sit there trying to get your groups smaller.
When I've got the range to myself I'll stand in front of the line and practice all the "standard" positions I know of... prone, (difficult because of a bad neck) sitting, kneeling, and standing.
Interestingly, I'm in the minority in that I shoot mostly handguns, and even then, most people shoot off bags!
-Jorah
It is actually difficult to find a time to shoot rifles any other way than bench-rest at that range; everyone seems to be into tight groups, and you almost never see offhand, much less prone or kneeling. I've almost stopped doing any rifle shooting because it isn't much fun (to me... I know tastes vary!) to just sit there trying to get your groups smaller.
When I've got the range to myself I'll stand in front of the line and practice all the "standard" positions I know of... prone, (difficult because of a bad neck) sitting, kneeling, and standing.
Interestingly, I'm in the minority in that I shoot mostly handguns, and even then, most people shoot off bags!
-Jorah
Working on one's offhand accuracy is a great thing, ask anybody shooting High Power Service Rifle matches, that's usually where the scores drop a bit after the prone and sitting stages.
Practically, I haven't had to use the offhand position save for those particular stages of competition and a small percentage of my hunting trips. One of the last Wisconsin whitetail I took utilized a tree branch as a supporting rest from the standing position, but for the most part I've taken them from the kneeling position, or sitting.
One thing I noticed when I joined the Air Force almost 15 years ago, is that we don't qualify from a standing offhand position with the M16. Tactically sound reasons, of course, but it's done from a standing, behind barricade, or prone, or kneeling, behind barricade. GI's tend to present big targets when standing up aiming at things. I'll bet this particular mindset carries over into a lot of other folks' shooting techniques, save for handguns.
There's not a darned thing wrong with honing one's offhand skills. If you can be a deadeye standing offhand, then you're on top of the game, and sitting, kneeling, prone, of off the bench should be an absolute piece of cake.
I do shoot my No5Mk1 Jungle Carbine offhand most of the time, but that's because the recoil makes bench shooting a bit sharp. Offhand rolls a lot easier for me.
Practically, I haven't had to use the offhand position save for those particular stages of competition and a small percentage of my hunting trips. One of the last Wisconsin whitetail I took utilized a tree branch as a supporting rest from the standing position, but for the most part I've taken them from the kneeling position, or sitting.
One thing I noticed when I joined the Air Force almost 15 years ago, is that we don't qualify from a standing offhand position with the M16. Tactically sound reasons, of course, but it's done from a standing, behind barricade, or prone, or kneeling, behind barricade. GI's tend to present big targets when standing up aiming at things. I'll bet this particular mindset carries over into a lot of other folks' shooting techniques, save for handguns.
There's not a darned thing wrong with honing one's offhand skills. If you can be a deadeye standing offhand, then you're on top of the game, and sitting, kneeling, prone, of off the bench should be an absolute piece of cake.
I do shoot my No5Mk1 Jungle Carbine offhand most of the time, but that's because the recoil makes bench shooting a bit sharp. Offhand rolls a lot easier for me.
Steve Smith
New member
I've seen the same thing at my range. It's always the same type of shooter there, hunters usually (I hunt too, BTW) that only shoot from the bench. They see me shooting from offhand, sitting, or prone, and say, "you'd get better groups if you'd shoot that from the bench." They don't get it. It's not just about getting good groups...it's about you handling your rifle properly. Anyone can bolt a barrelled action to a concrete bench and pull the trigger (or activate an elecronic trigger) remotely and get itty bitty groups. That doesn't mean that they can shoot. Doug 29 obviously subscribes tot he Rifleman concept, too. A Rifleman can control any target within 500 yds, from any position. I'm not there yet, but I'm working on it. To me, that's shooting.
JMHO.
JMHO.
Most of the year, I shoot from the bench. Usually, I'm testing out new loads in various rifles. About 3 months prior to hunting season, the bench gets less use and shooting from offhand, sitting, and kneeling get priority. I don't have a lot of use for prone as where I hunt the weeds and brush are too high to see my target. When hunting, I try to get as close as I can, and find something to use to stabilize my position.
Paul B.
Paul B.
I spent about two hours shooting my rifles yesterday, all standing, and I just noticed something else this morning--my arms are sore! I'm a strong guy, but there are definitely some new muscles at play. And I was shooting pretty light-weight carbines. A fully outfitted bolt-action hunting rifle weighs more, and I suspect untrained arms would have trouble keeping one steady after a long hike. That may be another reason to avoid relying on the bench too much. I'm more familiar with handguns, and know I've had to develop "bisley muscles" to keep my heavy Ruger steady in the bullseye stance. Isn't there some old Nordic sport that involves shooting after intense skiing? I wonder how many of those guys train from the bench.
Jamie Young
New member
Good Post I've been wondering about this for some time now. I got off the sandbags and started shooting free hand. I realized How bad I was and started wondering about all those people that talk about how "MY GUN SHOOTS 1MOA or MY GUN SHOOTS 2MOA". Yes the Gun does but they don't!!!!
When I shot my first 2inch group with my Mini 14 I talked to my Gunsmith about it and he said "Too Many People talk about the Gun and not the Shooter"! I can shoot about a 6inch group with my Mini 14 off the bench and thats firing quick follow up shots. The first time I did it I wasn't always hitting the paper at 100yds YIKES !! There is a time to use your bench rest and a time to get off it. Its kind of funny how its the exact opposite for most pistol shooters. Most people shoot free handed with there pistol but bench rest there rifle.
When I shot my first 2inch group with my Mini 14 I talked to my Gunsmith about it and he said "Too Many People talk about the Gun and not the Shooter"! I can shoot about a 6inch group with my Mini 14 off the bench and thats firing quick follow up shots. The first time I did it I wasn't always hitting the paper at 100yds YIKES !! There is a time to use your bench rest and a time to get off it. Its kind of funny how its the exact opposite for most pistol shooters. Most people shoot free handed with there pistol but bench rest there rifle.
I've done a little more digging, and found this passage from "The Art of Shooting with the Rifle" by Sir John Halford, published way back in 1888:
"From 500 and 600 yards my pupil will go back to 200 yards to try what he can do standing, for he must not forget that in sporting shooting and in self-defence standing shooing is not only an advantage, but often a necessity, while with really dangerous game it is almost the only position that it is possible to use.
When the lying-down positions are once learned, I do not think they are ever lost; they are so steady that one can always squeeze off the trigger without trouble. But in shooting standing it is quite different, and nothing but constant practice keeps on in good form."
I like that part about going BACK to 200 yards! Those boys did pretty good with black powder cartridges.
"From 500 and 600 yards my pupil will go back to 200 yards to try what he can do standing, for he must not forget that in sporting shooting and in self-defence standing shooing is not only an advantage, but often a necessity, while with really dangerous game it is almost the only position that it is possible to use.
When the lying-down positions are once learned, I do not think they are ever lost; they are so steady that one can always squeeze off the trigger without trouble. But in shooting standing it is quite different, and nothing but constant practice keeps on in good form."
I like that part about going BACK to 200 yards! Those boys did pretty good with black powder cartridges.
I have a Remington 700 with a 26 inch barrel and a bipod. If I had to shoot that standing, between the weight and recoil, I would probably shoot 6 rounds and have to call it day.
For me, you can not even compare accuracy between shooting a rifle standing or from a bipod or sand bag.
For me, you can not even compare accuracy between shooting a rifle standing or from a bipod or sand bag.
Humm, are they shooting rifles that look like this. I would be hard pressed to hit a target at 300 yards off hard with this http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=1580853&a=12026221&p=43441055&Scale=530x400 so I sit and look lazy and put 4 round SUB MOA. Then I take the spoils home, clean them and cook the Heck of of cardboard and paper, season well and slow cook in a crock pot. You know, it still tastes like cardboard and paper, am I doning something wrong. Maybe I should add Wine
and put 4 round SUB MOA. Then I take the spoils home, clean them and cook the Heck of of cardboard and paper, season well and slow cook in a crock pot. You know, it still tastes like cardboard and paper, am I doning something wrong. Maybe I should add Wine Michael Priddy
New member
BENCH REST SHOOTING
Bench rest shooting is the technical part of shooting. It is like laboratory work. Shooting from a good solid rest reduces the number of variables affecting the size of the group. The size of the group indicates the ability of the rifle barrel and action to put the bullets in the same hole with "0" variables involved. Reloading is a way of testing the mixing and matching different variables of powder/bullet/primer/case and seating depth. Shooting from different positions is testing the shooter. When you have satisfied your self with the rifle and load with groups of under half inch or so, you will know if you are missing targets from different positions, it is you and not the rifle and ammunition. As I have said before, I use to be a hunter that reloaded ammunition. Now I am a reloader who hunts with a very accurate rifle. Michael
Hey Paul B. Good to hear from you!
Bench rest shooting is the technical part of shooting. It is like laboratory work. Shooting from a good solid rest reduces the number of variables affecting the size of the group. The size of the group indicates the ability of the rifle barrel and action to put the bullets in the same hole with "0" variables involved. Reloading is a way of testing the mixing and matching different variables of powder/bullet/primer/case and seating depth. Shooting from different positions is testing the shooter. When you have satisfied your self with the rifle and load with groups of under half inch or so, you will know if you are missing targets from different positions, it is you and not the rifle and ammunition. As I have said before, I use to be a hunter that reloaded ammunition. Now I am a reloader who hunts with a very accurate rifle. Michael
Hey Paul B. Good to hear from you!
Harley Nolden
Staff In Memoriam
LEGIONNAIRE:
FOR GOD AND COUNTRY
hjn
FOR GOD AND COUNTRY
hjn
Legionnaire
New member
Harley,
As in pro christo et patria?
As in pro christo et patria?