Who's to blame?

B

Boogershooter

New member
A neighbor of mine recently bought a rifle from a individual. A couple of weeks later he got in a tight spot for money and pawned the gun. He went back the next Friday after he got paid and got the gun back from pawn. Exactly a week later he got a phone call from the pawn shop saying the gun had been reported stolen 5 years ago in a different state. They stated he had to bring the gun back or face charges. It's always been my understanding that if a pawnshop took a gun in it had to clear a background check before it could be released to anyone even if it was the person who pawned it. My understanding could be wrong but who assumes the responsibility in this situation?
 
Boogershooter said:
...My understanding could be wrong but who assumes the responsibility in this situation?
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Responsibility for what? Why is it a question of responsibility?

The bottom line is that one can not acquire legal ownership of anything that was stolen. Whatever it is (gun, camera, watch, painting, etc.) remains the legal property of whomever it was stolen from. And if the item is found, the person from whom it was stolen is entitled to have it returned.

So the gun does not, and can not, belong to your neighbor. Of course that means that the seller didn't own the gun either. So your neighbor has a claim against the seller for return of the purchase price; and that person has a claim against the person from whom he bought it -- all the way up the line. Of course, if the neighbor can't find the seller, he's out of luck. And if the seller won't refund the money, the neighbor might have to sue.
 
The shop I do business with will not put a gun on the shelf or release a gun from pawn til the gun checks out clean. Is it legal for this shop to release the gun back to my neighbor before it comes back clean?
 
I find it hard to believe that the pawnshop was not aware of the rifle's status when your friend returned with the money to get it from pawn. Around here, some shops will check it out before they accept it into pawn, and all will post it to the law enforcement site within a day or two.

Having said that, your bud is out the rifle. He needs to contact the local sheriff and discuss the matter with him, then arrange for pickup by the sheriff. He doesn't have to return it to the pawn shop, he has no obligation to them.
 
I look at stolen goods like a hot potato. Whoever has it in his or her possession when it is discovered it is stolen is basically out the property. As others have said the obligation is to law enforcement and not the pawn shop.

Interestingly if the pawn shop were to ask him to return it and exchange money you might be knowingly trading in stolen property at that point. Call the local sheriff department and ask for advice.

Theoretically your friend might have recourse from whoever he bought it from (and down the line) but it would be hard to collect.

/Not a lawyer. Free advise from an unqualified individual is worth as much as you think it is.
 
Boogershooter said:
....Is it legal for this shop to release the gun back to my neighbor before it comes back clean?
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Beats me. But that's also pretty much irrelevant here. If it's a stolen rifle, your neighbor needs to turn it in.

Now if you think someone at the pawn is not being truthful about the rifle being stolen, that's another matter. The neighbor should contact the police himself and check out the situation personally. But still, if it's a stolen gun, your neighbor needs to turn it in.
 
He returned it back to the pawn shop. I just find it absurd they released the gun so quickly. I truely thought there was a law in place just for that.
 
I went by the sheriff's dept while at lunch. If they can't find the owner that reported it stolen within a reasonable amount of time he will be able to keep the gun. No charges against anybody.
 
So we are to assume that the gun did find its way to the sheriff's office? I was having difficulty figuring out why the neighbor should return the gun to the pawn shop. If it was purportedly a stolen firearm, I would think it should be turned over directly to the police.
 
The best thing he can do in my opinion is to contact an attorney and have the attorney take care of it. He can contact the local law enforcement agency who can then run the serial number to see if it is indeed stolen. Then the attorney can arrange for its return on your behalf. There is also the possibility that the pawn shop had or has a buyer for the rifle who is willing to pay a premium price for it. While most pawn shops are reputable there are those that are not.
 
The bottom line is that one can not acquire legal ownership of anything that was stolen.
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Perhaps, but they may be able to acquire good title to the firearm by being a bona fide purchaser for value. Depends on state laws, your proof that you paid good value and without notice, and what some judge has to say about it.
 
In the state of louisiana every gun that goes thru a pawn broker has to be registered into a national database. The rifle was reported stolen out of Houston Texas. The sheriff's dept will make an attempt to find the original owner. If they do not get in touch with this person after a valid attempt then he can take legal ownership of the rifle.
 
They stated he had to bring the gun back or face charges.
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I would not have taken it back to the pawn shop. That is hokey. The sheriff's department should have contacted the person with the gun...like AB said. Turning over a stolen gun that you now know to be stolen to some 3rd party other than law enforcement sounds wrong. The pawn shop should not be knowingly accepting illegal/stolen guns.
 
Skans said:
Perhaps, but they may be able to acquire good title to the firearm by being a bona fide purchaser for value....
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In general, no. The doctrine of "good faith bona fide purchaser" does not apply when the property was acquired somewhere in the chain of title by theft. No one, from the thief onward has any lawful claim to the item. Because the thief acquired no lawful claim he can not transfer any lawful claim up the chain of title. See the discussion here:
...A basic common-law principle is that an individual cannot pass a better title than she has, and a buyer can acquire no better title than that of the seller. A thief does not have title in stolen goods, so a person who purchases from the thief does not acquire title....
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Skans said:
...Depends on state laws, your proof that you paid good value and without notice, and what some judge has to say about it.
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Cite legal authority supporting that contention.
 
Frank I truely thank you for your help on this. I do not have the law in writing, just what I was told by the sheriff's dept that is handling the situation. According to them this is fairly common. They have the choice to take the firearm into their custody for the investigation, or they can leave it with the pawn broker until it is resolved. If they cannot get in contact with the person who reported it stolen after 1 year the record will be cleared and the rifle will then be registered to the pawn broker or individual.
 
I think you can about guarantee if it's in the custody of the pawnshop, the pawnshop is going to acquire the title to it in a year, if anyone but the legal owner is going to get it.

If I owned that shop and the sheriff told me your buddy was the owner he would be looking at a daily storage fee, to be satisfied on transfer of title to the rifle, of course.

Something is not right about this at all.

Tell you bud to get his attorney involved. If he was legally the person in line to acquire title, then the pawnshop extorted his right to acquire title from him.

Hopefully he's learned to keep a couple hundred bucks in the bank so he doesn't have to play catchup every payday.
 
Hmmmm . . . .

I don't think I'd be taking it back to the pawn shop. They are not law enforcement, but are now in trouble for not checking on this gun in a timely manner. I'd say hang onto the gun, check with local law enforcement, and wait until someone with the authority of law enforcement says you have to relinquish the gun to them.

Live well, be safe
Prof Young
 
I've helped him alot over the years and kinda feel sry for the guy. He's really is a good guy he just got tangled up in a bad deal. He turned the gun into the pawn shop because they are the ones that did the nics paperwork or whatever it's called. The sheriff's dept will pick it up from them. He's never been good at managing money but hopefully this will teach him a valuable lesson.
 
Who has the money?

When the pawn shop demanded the gun be returned to them (not law enforcement) did they return the money in question? Or do they currently have possession of both the item and the money? To me that seems entirely against the concept of a pawn shop.
 
Here's one example, Frank:

Article 524 of the Civil Code of the state of Louisiana provides in pertinent part as follows:

“the owner of a lost or stolen moveable may recover it from a possessor who bought it in good faith in a public auction or from a merchant customarily selling similar things on reimbursing the purchase price"

Basically, Louisiana will require the victim of a theft pay a BFP the price paid if the victim wants the item back. The theory is that the victim of the theft could have insured against the theft and be made whole; the BFP has no way of protecting himself from the loss.
 
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