Who has used a P14 action for a custom magnum build?

T

tobnpr

New member
I had planned to just purchase the new Savage in .338 LM, but I'm now leaning towards building my son a custom if I can make it happen for reasonable $$.

There aren't many actions / bolts that can handle the bolt thrust of the .338 LM with a requisite safety margin- but I've recently read about some using the P14 for this.

I've looked but can't find any definitive information on this that would make me comfortable pulling the trigger (literally) on this yet- any of you know of documentation confirming this can handle the pressure and bolt thrust? And if so, does it even make sense to use this action for this purpose (trued)?

Thanks for input.
 
There is nothing like rediscovering America over and over every day. Before the Internet there were smiths, some wrote books, one way Roy Dunlap. In his book on gunsmithing he evaluated the M1917 and P 14. His favorite was the Remington, because it did not have a hole to fill on top of the rear sight bridge. Next came the Winchester, it had the hole in the top of the sight bridge. Last and least favorite was the Eddystone; if there was such a thing as a box of chocolate among M1917 receivers it was the Eddystone. Roy Dunlap claimed it was anyone’s guess as to what a smith would find. The receivers went through all the ranges of being just right to brittle. The only receiver I have that is cracked is an Eddystone.

Then there was Weatherby; Weatherby claimed he had no reservations about building an M1917 receiver chambered to a Weatherby chamber. Next comes finding one, I was out looking for parts and found 3 complete P14 receivers for $200.00 each. I also found 4 complete 03 low number Springfields that in all appearance were never used for $200.00 each.

I need a Springfield action for an 03A4 barrel that is chambered to 308 Norma Mag. I found a Remington 03 for $150.00, took it to the range and decided I could not improve on the accuracy so I applied the ‘leaver policy’. I came close to sending it home with the grandkids, problem, the rifle is not drilled and tapped.

F. Guffey
 
If "reasonable $$" is a factor, unless you can acquire the P-14 for free or nearly so, and do most of the work yourself, making it into the equivalent of the Savage will end up costing more than the Savage and the rifle will be larger and heavier than it needs to be. The most reasonable course would be to simply buy the Savage. Of course, if this is to be a project rifle, something you have your heart set on building yourself, that is another story.

Jim
 
I just missed a complete (non-DP) action on GB for under $200...
I can of course handle it all myself-just need a quality blank and reamer.
Plan to obtain an old military stock and modify it then use as a pattern stock on my duplicator to cut a new, modern custom.

$200 for the action, $400 for barrel and brake, $100 for the stock blank, $50 to rent the reamer and headspace gauges. Money leftover for misc. before breaking $1K.

Already spent that much on dies and all the reloading supplies needed.

But it's more about building a custom for my son than cheapest cost.

Scorch, thanks. .375 H&H is in the same class as the .300 WM, so I need to dig deeper.
Much more powder capacity in the Lapua than those two.
Savage makes a special action just for the Lapua, as the standard magnum action is insufficient to handle the bolt thrust.
 
Here is what I can add.I had an old P-14 action already sporterized from about 25 years ago.
No charge.
I found a Bell and Carlson Corbelite stock for a full belly'd P-14.It was cheap.I think I paid $60.
A big old Armalite AR-30 brake is about $100.I have shot the AR-30 in .338 Lapua.That brake works.Recoil is negligible.That is good for the optics,stock,etc.

I'm not going to worry about altering the P-14 to feed.I'm not very good at that.
I don't recall the name of the maker right now,but I'm going with a center,single stack magazine feed.Its the middle length magazine,accepts CIP spec ammo.Its the one they use in the Rem police.
Yes,I will have to make some parts.I might have to weld on an original guard.But I can make it work.Bridgeport!!
That mag is about $90.I can start with the one.

I have a chunk of barrel stub from an old P-14.I'm going to set it up carefully and bore it to accept a drill bushing.PTG makes bolt face tools.I'm going to put my threaded stub in the receiver to guide the bolt face tool.

.338 L brass has a significant 45 deg chamfer on the rear of the rim.I need to talk to PTG about the bolt face tool.I would prefer to leave as much of a fillet as possible on the bolt face to strengthen the perimeter rim of steel.It does get thin.These tools,might cost me $120??I don't know.

I have the Brownells mandrel to true the receiver ring face.

The top of this receiver was contoured for Rem bases.It will probably get a picatinny bridge.Maybe a 20 minute one.

The P-14 is one of the receivers Krieger will accept to fit a barrel and chamber.They will also thread for a brake.
Yes,I can do all that.I'm getting old .I have better things to do,and I won't need a reamer.
I'm guessing $500 will come close to getting it done.

That's about $870,projected guess.The original two stage military trigger has a nice break,its smooth,quite acceptable.I'm OK with cock on closing.The receiver is already blue.I think I'll go stainess on the bbl,sandblasted.
I can put one of the paint finishes on it.

I think I can have it shooting for $1000.I have a scope I can borrow off another rifle.A 4.5 to 14 Leupold 30 mm Long range mil dot.

I could save some money buying a cheaper barrel and doing my own work.But...Nah.

Right now,its a receiver,stock,and magazine(and Forster dies,a hundred Norma brass,and a couple hundred bullets)

Priorities,$,etc.These things take time.
I do not doubt it might be smarter to buy a Savage.
I dunno.
The same argument can be made about going antelope hunting vs going to the store and buying some meat.
Building rifles is just something I do.
I never really get excited about guns I just buy.Its the difference between just a thing,and a creation.
 
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My brother got an Enfield 30-06 walk in at the gunshow for $35, 10 years ago.
The stock has been sporterized and the groove size is .311". He has never shot it or worked on it.

MacFarland's book warns that the rifle is much more work to sporterize than other rifles. He shows how to do it, and say other rifles will be a sub set of that effort.
 
All good points. Time is something that's in short supply. 12 hour days, and still over a month backlogged. But, it's something I'd really like to do...you know, father/son kinda thing.

I was kinda wondering how tight these rifles were in terms of bolt clearances, concentricity, etc. compared to an off-the-shelf modern action.

I don't always assume, modern CNC is better anymore.

Yesterday, I sent a pre-threaded barrel back to a major manufacturer because the thread tenon was .013 too large. That's a mile- how in the world does that happen :rolleyes: Couldn't even get half a turn onto the receiver.

Maybe some things WERE better in the "old days" lol...
 
An unbubba'd Pattern 14 is worth about $600US. A Pattern 14 bubba'd into a .338 LM is worth the sum of its parts. The days of using milsurps to build hunting rifles are long gone.
 
I certainly would not alter an original P-14 or P-17.
If I had an unaltered P-14 or P-17 receiver,I'd find parts and resurrect it,even though there will always be some critic who will say its a fraud or a stupid idea.
I really do not care.
30 years ago,with a couple of friends,we came across a qty of P-14 receivers.
Seems like they were about $20 or $25 apiece.
We said "Hmmm,long actions!!!.375's,416's!!!"

So we processed them.I have one left.

As a kid,there was a fine older gentleman gunsmith who had time for me.He mattered.
And as a kid,I read Baker and Dunlap.And American Rifleman,and Gun Digest,etc.
Along the way,I got hired as a machine shop gopher.
Over time,I became a machinist,and ended up building plastic injection molds,understudying a mold and die finisher,worked with a Muzzle loader gunsmith or two.
An old friend bought a Bridgeport.I bought a Southbend.
We have built a lot of nice guns.

It happens that I get a spark of an idea,over a receiver or a cartridge or a whole rifle for a range or a target.

I think about it,plan it,design it,build it.

I'm glad,proud,that as an Old Guy,I still have the coals of creativity glowing warm down in my ashes.

If you are so burned out and lifeless that all you can do is try to put out those sparks,why not just leave other folks alone?
The OP wants to do something with his son.
Maybe his son will learn to cut threads,chamber,etc.

We know already.Get your plastic out.Buy a factory made product.
And never grow your own tomatoes or make your own bread.Some folks know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

Its sad,what we are losing.We are raising helpless kids without skills.What is more sad are the older people who are part of extinguishing the last sparks.

tobnpr,.You do it your way!! Enjoy the experience with your son.
 
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^^^ HOLY SMOKES!

I joined TFL in 2006, and this is the first post that ever made me want to jump to my feet and give a standing ovation!!!

Well played HiBC. Well played!
 
Over sized threads? Maybe one of those short chambered barrels and they decided to short thread it too? Yes, it is a sad state of affairs in the U.S. manufacturing sector. A lot of it has to do with CNC. --"Hey, I entered the numbers, I don't need to check the dimensions".
 
A Square used Enfields and Remington 30s for their monster magnums.
How do they compare to .338 Lap?
Click to expand...

When I read this, I recalled the video that made me LMAO of some guys shooting the .577 T-Rex...

I never looked into the A-Square builds though- but I did just read that the actions were "modeled after" the P14. What that means, exactly, I don't know... but I'm on the trail :D

If it can handle the .577, the .338 LM shouldn't be an issue. More powder capacity than the Lapua, less than the .50 BMG- but almost as much muzzle energy at about 6 tons from what I'm reading.

Scary, to think about that much recoil in a 13 lb, shoulder-fired rifle- and not a tripod-mounted beast that weighs 3 times as much with a monster brake.

If any of you haven't gotten a laugh at this before...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrImp-ek3bI
 
There is nothing wrong with building a custom rifle if that is what you want to do, and the P-14/M1917 actions are strong actions. But the OP is the one who mentioned cost and asked for advice. I didn't feel it was out of place to suggest that a factory rifle might be best.

I had no way of knowing that he had already made up his mind, partly on an emotional basis, and had no real interest in any suggestions to the contrary. Nor was I aware that he is an experienced gunsmith who can easily do the work required himself at little cost.

So, my apologies for advice that was contrary to someone's dream; enjoy your custom rifles, guys.

Jim
 
James,your advice was early on,before the OP mentioned the Father/Son aspect.
And,there is no denying your advice is sound.

Time,troubles,money,and having a good tool to go shooting with,and having a rifle with resale value,the Savage makes sense.So does an Armalite AR-30.

I can only think of one 36 cal muzzle loader I built that I sold.And it was to a Father to share with his sons.

I have more fun just giving them to the right person.

A blunt fact is,few people can justify dropping $1500 to $2000 for a rifle they still need to buy a scope for.

Often that sort of purchase must be approved by another very important family member who may recognize other priorities.

That same person might tolerate a couple hundred once in a while if she sees some quality Father-Son activity.

Serenity.
 
So, my apologies for advice that was contrary to someone's dream; enjoy your custom rifles, guys.
Click to expand...

I should have been more specific, no apology necessary...

I'm well aware of the dollars and cents (or, "Sense") aspect of it. Particularly these days with most any factory rifle spitting bullets out at minute of angle, customs aren't as much about accuracy for most, as having exactly what you want and/or something different.

Just ask my customers that spend between $500 and $1000 on a custom Mosin-Nagant.

The input I was/am seeking is specifically with regard to the P14 action (and, only a fool would take a collectible one and tear it down for the action) for a custom build. I'm aware of the role K98's played in this, but not so much the P14.
 
The input I was/am seeking is specifically with regard to the P14 action (and, only a fool would take a collectible one and tear it down for the action) for a custom build. I'm aware of the role K98's played in this, but not so much the P14.
Click to expand...

I have taken a more than a few rifle to the range for no other reason than to determine if they were shooters. One surprise was a 1905 Ross 303 British. I have no ideal what I would have done if it wasn’t. Then there was the last ditch 98 Mauser. The stock was finished with shoe polish and made in two pieces. The finish on the action looked as thought it was hot dipped. Then there were the bands, the bands were cut from tin cans. After firing the rifle I decided it would become the next project. Anyhow, what I thought were tumbling bullets were clover leaf groups. The rifle is still ugly but it shoots. I purchased a Golden State, Santa Fe, national Arms, 03 Remington with 2 boxes of ammo for $150.00. I needed the action for a 03A4 barrel with a 308 Norma Mag chamber. There was nothing I could do to improve on the Santa Fe/Golden State 03 so I applied the leaver policy.

I needed parts for the P14 and or the M1917 so I bid on what appeared to be a parts rifle listed on one of the gun auctions. Reloading forums had a field day with comments like: “What was he thinking about?” and “The ugliest rifle ever sproterised”. Any how I won the auction for $120.00, I could not believe someone could build anything that ugly without knowing what they were doing, but there was an outside chance he knew more than most forum members. I took the rifle to the range with 120 rounds loaded in groups of 10 cases each with different cases, powder and bullets. The rifle liked everything, no flyers, all the groups stayed together. There was nothing I would do to improve on accuracy so; again, I applied the leaver policy. The rifle action and barrel had been bedded top and bottom and on the sides. The stock was the recoil lug, floor plate, etc..

I am now the proud owner of an Argentine 1891 chambered to 308 W, more on that story when I decide what I am going to do with it. It started when I was not listening. The builder informed me it was a 308 W, I told him it was a 7.65mm53 B.M. I checked the chamber length and diameter, which is when I found it had been chambered to 308 W. The barrel started its life with a 30/06 chamber.

F. Guffey
 
P17 Action

Hope it is ok to resurrect this thread...1917 Rem Enfield action avail.

I built a 375H&H on a 1917 Remington action back in the mid 90's. Turned out very well. I welded the bolt, straightened the floorplate, built a new magazine box and tuned the action to properly feed the big ammo. I had a professional gunsmith install a douglas barrel and mill the action for an FN contour on the rear. I fitted quick detach scope mounts, an express leaf sight and front ramp site. Lastly I mounted a sling swivel mount to the barrel. All fitted and glass bedded into a Richards Microfit stock that I hand checkered.

Well that was 20+ years ago. Around 15 years ago, I picked up a bare 1917 Remington receiver with the thoughts of doing another magnum rifle. Well that looks like that will never happen. So I thought I would mention it here to see if one of you FFL holding gunsmiths want to entertain buying this action from me.

I have it almost complete. I think it is missing only a few parts (like the button that goes under the bolt release and the mag follower). I have a straightened floor plate with it. I has a P14 bolt and I modified it to use the P17 firing pin.

I thought I would mention it here prior to throwing it out on an auction site.

John Williams
 
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